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1/21/2018 11:40:28 AMIf there is no Hell why did Jesus die on the cross? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Why would He need to? If there is no Hell what does His sacrificial death save anybody from?

Hell deniers, what say you?




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1/21/2018 4:40:42 PMIf there is no Hell why did Jesus die on the cross? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


The Roman Catholic Church in the 4th Century declared that Mary was a **VIRGIN** forever **AFTER** Jesus was born and that Jesus had no brothers and sisters that were born to Mary????

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

Matthew 12:46,47: While Jesus was still talking to the crowd , His mother and **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} stood outside, waiting to speak to Him. Someone told Him, "Your mother and **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} are standing outside, waiting to speak to you." Jesus replied, " Who is my mother , and who are My brothers?" Pointing to His disciples, He said, **HERE** are My mother and My brothers. For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and **MOTHER!!"

Mark 8:19-21: Now Jesus' mother and **BROTHERS** came to see Him, bur they were not able to get near Him because of the crowd. Someone told Him, "Your mother and **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} are standing outside waiting to see you." Jesus replied, " **MY MOTHER** and brothers are those who hear God's Word and put it into practice!"

John 7:2,3: When the Jewish Festival of Tabernacles was near, Jesus' **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} said to Him, "Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do! No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world. For even His **OWN BROTHERS** did not believe in Him! {However, two of the brothers of Jesus named James and Jude believed later and wrote the inspired books of James and Jude!}

Mark 6:3: The Jews in Nazareth said, "Isn't this Mary's son and the **BROTHER** {Adelphgos} of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't His **SISTERS** {Adelphe} here with us?"

Matthew 13:55,56: The Jews in Nazareth said, "Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't His mothers name Mary, and aren't His **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} **JAMES** {See Acts 1:14 & Luke 24:10 & Galatians 1:19 below!}, **JOSEPH** {See Mark 15:47 below!}, Simon and Judas? Aren't all His **SISTERS** {Adelphe} with us?"

Mark 15:46,47: He rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. Mary Magdalene and Mary the **MOTHER OF JOSEPH** saw where He was laid!

Luke 24:10: It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the **MOTHER OF JAMES**, and the others with them who told this to the apostles!

Acts 1:14: They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His **BROTHERS** {Adelphos}!!

I Corinthians 9:5: Paul said, Don't we have a right to take as believing wife along with us, as do the other Apostles and the **LORD'S BROTHERS** and Peter?

Galatians 1:19: Paul said, "I saw none of the other Apostles--only **JAMES THE LORD'S BROTHER**!!,

Matthew 1:24,25: When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as His wife. But he had **NO UNION WITH HER **UNTIL** she gave birth to a Son. And he gave Him the name Jesus!

Now the Roman Catholics state that the brothers and sister mentioned in the above Scriptures were really **COUSINS** since there is no Hebrew word for **COUSINS**. However, the NT was written in Greek, the most exact language in the world; and the Greek word for cousin is **ANEPSIOS** which is used in Colossians 4:10 which states: "My fellow prisoner Aristarchus sends you his greetings, as does Mark, the **COUSIN**{Anepsios} of Barnabas!!" And so the NT writers knew the exact word for cousins but **DID NOT USE IT** in referring to the brothers of Jesus and Mary's sons!!

Actually if Mary did not have union with her husband, Joseph, she would be sinning as per the NT command in I Corinthians 7:3,4: "The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise **THE WIFE TO HER HUSBAND**!! The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband!!"



Pope Pius IX declared the Immaculate Conception of Mary an article of faith on this day, December 8, 1854. According to his pronouncement in Ineffabilis Deus, Mary was given grace to be sinless??? Making Mary the only human person in Bible history to be sinless???

In general Christians insist that any major doctrine must be clearly backed up by some Scripture. Yet, as the Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture."

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

Isaiah 53:6: We **ALL** like sheep, have gone astray, **EACH OF US** has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of **US ALL**!

Romans 3:22-24: There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for **ALL** have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and **ALL** are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus!

Romans 5:12: Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin and this way **DEATH CAME TO ALL PEOPLE**, because **ALL HAVE SINNED**!!

I John 1:8,10: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.... If we claim we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and **HIS TRUTH IS NOT IN US**!!

1/21/2018 7:50:06 PMIf there is no Hell why did Jesus die on the cross? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


Quote from ludlowlowell:


The perpetual virginity of Mary, like a lot of doctrines about Mary, fall under 2 Thessalinians 2:15---these doctrines were taught by word of mouth in the Church, not by epistle. According to 2 Thessalonians 2:15 they must be believed even though not written down.


**BUT WHAT DOES 2 THESSALONIANS 2:15 REALLY SAY**??

2 Thessalonians 2:15: Paul said, "Stand firm and hold fast to the teachings passed on to you, whether by **WORD OF MOUTH** or by **LETTER**."

Now Paul only wrote 2 inspired letters to the Thessalonians but he also wrote 12 other inspired letters with many different doctrines to other churches!! Now the Roman Catholic Church teaches that what Paul taught by **WORD OF MOUTH** to the Thessalonians had many other doctrines not found in other Scriptures and only the Roman Catholic Church knows what these unknown doctrines are??? For example: That Mary was the only human person in Bible history that was **SINLESS** that they declared as the **WORDS OF GOD** on December 8th, 1854 {???} which is contradicted by many Scriptures in the inspired **WORDS OF GOD**!!!

Pope Pius IX declared the Immaculate Conception of Mary an article of faith on this day, December 8, 1854. According to his pronouncement in Ineffabilis Deus, Mary was given grace to be sinless??? Making Mary the only human person in Bible history to be sinless???

In general Christians insist that any major doctrine must be clearly backed up by some Scripture. Yet, as the Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture."

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

Isaiah 53:6: We **ALL** like sheep, have gone astray, **EACH OF US** has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of **US ALL**!

Romans 3:22-24: There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for **ALL** have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and **ALL** are justified freely by His grace through he redemption that came by Christ Jesus!

Romans 5:12: Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin and this way **DEATH CAME TO ALL PEOPLE**, because **ALL HAVE SINNED**!!

I John 1:8,10: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.... If we claim we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and **HIS TRUTH IS NOT IN US**!!

I Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.

Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"

I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's love is truly made complete in him!

Matthew 4:4: Jesus says, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on **EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!"

Luke 8:15: Jesus says, "But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the **WORD**, retain it, and by perseverance produce a crop."

John 17:17: Jesus prays to His Father, "Sanctify them by the Truth, **YOUR WORD IS TRUTH**!"

Acts 20:32: Paul says, "Now I commit you to God and to the **WORD OF HIS GRACE**, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified!"

Romans 10:17: Consequently, **FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE**, and the message is heard **THROUGH THE WORD OF CHRIST**!

James 1:18; He chose to give us **BIRTH THROUGH THE WORD** of Truth!!

I Corinthians 15:2: By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the **WORD** preached to you. Otherwise you have believed in vain!

2 Corinthians 4:2: We do not use deception, nor do we distort the **WORD OF GOD**!

Ephesians 1:`13: You also were included in Christ **WHEN** you heard the **WORD** of Truth, the gospel of your salvation.

Ephesians 2:17: Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the **WORD OF GOD**!

Colossians 1:25: I have become its servant by the commission God gave to me to present to you the **WORD OF GOD IN ALL ITS FULLNESS**!

Colossians 3:16: Let the **WORD OF CHRIST** dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom!

I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**!

2 Timothy 2:15: Do your best to present yourselves to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who **CORRECTLY HANDLES THE WORD ** of truth!

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on *EARTH has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the **PRESENT AGE***. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

1/21/2018 8:35:41 PMIf there is no Hell why did Jesus die on the cross? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


Quote from ludlowlowell:

The brothers and sisters of Jesus, as described in the New Testament, were cousins of Jesus. The Aramaic word for "brother" is "aha" and aha means either brother or cousin.




Now the Roman Catholics state that the brothers and sisters mentioned in the above Scriptures were really **COUSINS** since there is no Hebrew or Aramaic word for **COUSINS**. However, the NT was written in Greek, the most exact language in the world; and the Greek word for cousin is **ANEPSIOS** which is used in Colossians 4:10 which states: "My fellow prisoner Aristarchus sends you his greetings, as does Mark, the **COUSIN**{Anepsios} of Barnabas!!" And so the NT writers in Greek knew the exact word for cousins but **DID NOT USE IT** in referring to the brothers of Jesus and Mary's sons!! Only a few sentences in the NT are written in Aramaic!!

Actually if Mary did not have union with her husband, Joseph, she would be sinning as per the NT command in I Corinthians 7:3,4: "The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise **THE WIFE TO HER HUSBAND**!! The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband!!"

Matthew 12:46,47: While Jesus was still talking to the crowd , His mother and **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} stood outside, waiting to speak to Him. Someone told Him, "Your mother and **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} are standing outside, waiting to speak to you." Jesus replied, " Who is my mother , and who are My brothers?" Pointing to His disciples, He said, **HERE** are My mother and My brothers. For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and **MOTHER!!"

Mark 8:19-21: Now Jesus' mother and **BROTHERS** came to see Him, bur they were not able to get near Him because of the crowd. Someone told Him, "Your mother and **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} are standing outside waiting to see you." Jesus replied, " **MY MOTHER** and brothers are those who hear God's Word and put it into practice!"

John 7:2,3: When the Jewish Festival of Tabernacles was near, Jesus' **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} said to Him, "Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do! No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world. For even His **OWN BROTHERS** did not believe in Him! {However, two of the brothers of Jesus named James and Jude believed later and wrote the inspired books of James and Jude!}

Mark 6:3: The Jews in Nazareth said, "Isn't this Mary's son and the **BROTHER** {Adelphgos} of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't His **SISTERS** {Adelphe} here with us?"

Matthew 13:55,56: The Jews in Nazareth said, "Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't His mothers name Mary, and aren't His **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} **JAMES** {See Acts 1:14 & Luke 24:10 & Galatians 1:19 below!}, **JOSEPH** {See Mark 15:47 below!}, Simon and Judas? Aren't all His **SISTERS** {Adelphe} with us?"

Mark 15:46,47: He rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. Mary Magdalene and Mary the **MOTHER OF JOSEPH** saw where He was laid!

Luke 24:10: It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the **MOTHER OF JAMES**, and the others with them who told this to the apostles!

Acts 1:14: They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His **BROTHERS** {Adelphos}!!

I Corinthians 9:5: Paul said, Don't we have a right to take as believing wife along with us, as do the other Apostles and the **LORD'S BROTHERS** and Peter?

Galatians 1:19: Paul said, "I saw none of the other Apostles--only **JAMES THE LORD'S BROTHER**!!,

Matthew 1:24,25: When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as His wife. But he had **NO UNION WITH HER **UNTIL** she gave birth to a Son. And he gave Him the name Jesus!

IS IT AN UNPARDONABLE SIN TO ADD WORDS OR TAKE WORDS AWAY FROM THE INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD IN THE NEW TESTAMENT**??

I Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.

Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"

I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's love is truly made complete in him!

Matthew 4:4: Jesus says, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on **EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!"

John 17:17: Jesus prays to His Father, "Sanctify them by the Truth, **YOUR WORD IS TRUTH**!"

Acts 20:32: Paul says, "Now I commit you to God and to the **WORD OF HIS GRACE**, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified!"

James 1:18; He chose to give us **BIRTH THROUGH THE WORD** of Truth!!

I Corinthians 15:2: By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the **WORD** preached to you. Otherwise you have believed in vain!

2 Corinthians 4:2: We do not use deception, nor do we distort the **WORD OF GOD**!

Ephesians 2:17: Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the **WORD OF GOD**!

Colossians 1:25: I have become its servant by the commission God gave to me to present to you the **WORD OF GOD IN ALL ITS FULLNESS**!

I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**!

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the **PRESENT AGE***. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

1/21/2018 8:39:31 PMIf there is no Hell why did Jesus die on the cross? 

rey2140
Over 1,000 Posts (1,110)
Sullivan, OH
48, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Why would He need to? If there is no Hell what does His sacrificial death save anybody from?

Hell deniers, what say you?

What would a hell have to do with anything anyway? Did not Christ complete the work given him to do on this earth then offer his life a ransom to qualify as the ruler of this world?
Repentance of sins is only part of it, but it is not the whole story.

How old is your Bible?

1/21/2018 8:40:16 PMIf there is no Hell why did Jesus die on the cross? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Proph, what if we kept this one about Hell and Jesus' sacrificial death? What if we tried to stay on topic?