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1/19/2018 10:55:03 AMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


I know you guys don't think we are allowed to pray to the saints but are we allowed to pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? Do all prayers have to be addressed to the Father? Since Jesus and the Holy Spirit are just as much God as God the Father, why can't we pray to Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

What do y'all think?

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1/19/2018 12:28:45 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

looptex1
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,801)
Chatsworth, GA
50, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from ludlowlowell:
I know you guys don't think we are allowed to pray to the saints but are we allowed to pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? Do all prayers have to be addressed to the Father? Since Jesus and the Holy Spirit are just as much God as God the Father, why can't we pray to Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

What do y'all think?

What did Jesus say?

Teach us to pray, asked his disciples,
Our father, which art in heaven,,,,,,,

Was that not what Jesus taught?

Did anyone else in the Scriptures teach another way?

And what does the Scriptures say? When thou pray believing, the father heareth, and answers.

Now why, why would anyone teach anything else?
Why would they teach another way?

Is the way Jesus taught not good enough?
Should we as you have said before, have a variety in our prayer life?

What would be the difference in having a variety of people to pray to, and a variety of people to worship?

None

1/19/2018 3:08:33 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


Ludlow quote:

"I know you guys don't think we are allowed to pray to the saints but are we allowed to pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? Do all prayers have to be addressed to the Father? Since Jesus and the Holy Spirit are just as much God as God the Father, why can't we pray to Jesus and the Holy Spirit?"

What do y'all think?

**WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

First of all Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not as great and powerful as God the Father!!

John 14:28: Jesus says "If you loved Me, you would be glad I am going to the **FATHER**, for the **FATHER IS GREATER THAN I!"

John 16:12-15: Jesus says, I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth. **HE WILL NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN**, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is **FROM ME** that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive **FROM ME** what he will make known to you.{Since the Spirit will inspire all the writers of the New Testament to write the **WORDS OF GOD** that he received from Jesus and that Jesus received from the **FATHER**}

John 14:23,24: "Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching. My Father will love him and we will make our home with him. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching.{Like the Roman Catholics who teach you can pray to someone other than God the Father} These words you hear are not My own they belong **TO THE FATHER** who sent Me!"



Did Jesus tell you to pray to anyone else besides His heavenly **FATHER**??

ANSWER: ZERO!!

Matthew 6:6,9-11: Jesus commands. "When you **PRAY**, go into your room, close the door and **PRAY TO YOUR FATHER**, who is unseen. Then your **FATHER**, who sees what is done in secret will reward you... This, then, is how you should **PRAY**: “Our **FATHER IN HEAVEN**!!

Luke 11:1-4: The disciples asked Jesus, "Teach us to **PRAY**" Jesus said to His disciples, "When you **PRAY**, say: '**FATHER** , hallowed be your name, Your kingdom come!!"

Anyone who teaches that you can pray to anyone else besides the **FATHER** in Heaven is guilty of the unpardonable sin of **ADDING TO GOD'S WORD**!!

Just like anyone who calls a Roman Catholic Pope **HOLY FATHER** is committing a terrible sin!!

Matthew 23:9: Jesus commands, "Do not call **ANYONE ON EARTH FATHER** for you have **ONE**{Spiritual} **FATHER** and He is in Heaven!! {It is completely obvious that Jesus was referring to only **SPIRITUAL FATHERS** in this context!!}

John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a **JUDGE** for the one does not accept My words: the very words I have spoken will **CONDEMN** them on the Last Day!!"

Ephesians 5:18-20: Be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, **ALWAYS GIVING THANKS TO **GOD** **THE FATHER** FOR EVERYTHING**, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!

Colossians 1:12,13: Give **JOYFUL THANKS TO THE **FATHER**, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of His holy people in the Kingdom of Light. For He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the Kingdom of the Son He loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins!

Colossians 3:17: Whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, **GIVING THANKS TO **GOD** **THE FATHER** through Him!

It is interesting to note that God's true saints only pray and **GIVE THANKS TO **GOD** **THE FATHER** in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ!!

Matthew 6:6,9-11: Jesus commands. "When you **PRAY**, go into your room, close the door and **PRAY TO YOUR FATHER**, who is unseen. Then your **FATHER**, who sees what is done in secret will reward you... This, then, is how you should **PRAY**: “Our **FATHER IN HEAVEN** hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread.”

Matthew 6:7,8: Jesus says, "And when you **PRAY**, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your **FATHER** knows what you need before **YOU ASK HIM**!"

Luke 11:1-4: The disciples asked Jesus, "Teach us to **PRAY**" Jesus said to His disciples, "When you **PRAY**, say: '**FATHER** , hallowed be your name, Your kingdom come. Give us each day our **DAILY** bread. **FORGIVE US OUR SINS**, for we forgive everyone who sins against us'"

I John 5:14,15 This is the confidence we have in approaching **GOD**; that if we ask anything **ACCORDING TO HIS WILL** He hears us. And if we know that **HE** hears us--whatever we ask--we know that we have what we **ASKED OF HIM**.


I John 2:1-5: Jesus Christ, the Righteous one. he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins. We know that we have come to know Him **IF** we keep His commands. Whoever says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a **LIAR**, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are **IN HIM**!!

Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, **ALL** AUTHORITY** in heaven and **ON EARTH** has been given to **ME**!! {Not some Pope} Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I COMMANDED YOU**!Like praying only to the **FATHER**} And surely I am with you **ALWAYS**!"

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I. Jesus, have sent My angel to give this testimony **FOR THE CHURCHES**!.. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone **ADDS** {Like RC Popes} anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book {Including eternal hell--Rev 14:9-11} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like RC Popes} God will take away from that person any share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem} which are described in this book!"

Ephesians 1:20-23} The Father raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, and power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the **PRESENT AGE** but also in the one to come. And God placed **ALL THINGS** under His feet and appointed Him to be the **HEAD** OVER EVERYTHING FOR THE **CHURCH**{Not some RC Pope}, which is His body the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!



1/19/2018 4:10:54 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 
freegratis
Irving, TX
51, joined Dec. 2011


Lud,
It's definitely safe to pray to the Father as obviously taught by the Son in Luke 11. But even here we should watch out for vain repetition and try to follow the model of that prayer.

Loop's reply had me concerned about my praying to the Holy Spirit. From my study on "The Champions 31 Day Devotional on the Holy Spirit (KNOWING HIM DAILY)" I started to acknowledge the Holy Spirit more. And I had an experience somewhat similar to my Catholic Confirmation -- which is about the Holy Spirit. However, this devotional teaches to seek relationship, not experience.

This link just confirmed enough to me that it is okay to pray to the Father, Son and/or Holy Spirit https://www.gotquestions.org/pray-Father-Son-Spirit.html
"All prayer should be directed to our triune God—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches that we can pray to one or all three, because all three are one."

But when you start including saints, angels, etc. I think you would be in great error.


Revelations 22:8-9
And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

1/19/2018 5:01:27 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Jesus did say pray to the Father. But He never said pray ONLY to the Father. Jesus couldn't have prayed to the Son---He was the Son! And had He prayed to the Holy Spirit publicly, everyone would have said huh? what's a Holy Spirit? The concept of the Holy Spirit was revealed gradually by Jesus and later by the apostles---early on in Jesus' ministry no one knew anything about the Holy Spirit.

The Son and the Holy Spirit are equal to the Father in every way. They are all three God. If you pray to one of Them you are praying to all three because God is one. One God, three Persons.

1/19/2018 6:24:26 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


NOW THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE CHURCH OF CHRIST AND EQUALIZER21 BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE SAVED BY GOOD WORKS AND THAT GOD'S CHOSEN SAINTS CAN LOOSE THEIR SALVATION??

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

JESUS SAYS, "I **CHOSE** YOU SO THAT YOU MIGHT BEAR **FRUIT**, **FRUIT THAT WILL LAST**!"

"John 15:16: You did not choose Me but **I CHOSE YOU** and appointed you so that you might go and bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!!"

Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by **GRACE** you have been saved, through **FAITH**—and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do **GOOD WORKS**, which God prepared in advance for us to do! {And so all of God's chosen saints will do **GOOD WORKS** for they are God's **WORKMANSHIP**!}

Matthew 13:20-23: Jesus says, "The seed falling on the rocky ground refers to someone who hears the Word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the Word they quickly fall away. The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the Word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the Word, making it unfruitful. {These seeds were not sown and chosen by God!} But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the **WORD AND UNDERSTANDS IT**. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."

Galatians 5:22,23: The **FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT** is love, joy, peace, forgiveness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control!

2 Peter 1:3-11: His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness. Through these He has given us very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption of the world caused by evil desires. For this reason, make every effort to add to your faith {A Free Gift of **GOD**} goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, **LOVE**. For if you possess these qualities in **INCREASING MEASURE**, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsightecd and blind, forgetting that they have been forgiven of their past sins... Therefore, my brothers make **EVERY EFFORT** to confirm your calling and **ELECTION**. For if you do these things, you will never fail, and you will receive a **RICH WELCOME** into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Corinthians 3:7-9: So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who makes things grow. The man who plants and the man who watered have one purpose, and each will be **REWARDED** according to his own labor. For we are God's fellow workers, you are God's field, God's building!

Ephesians 6:8: Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will **REWARD** everyone for what ever good he does!

Revelation 22:12 Jesus says, “Behold I am coming soon! My **REWARD** is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!”

John 6:37,39,65: Jesus says, "All those the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away....And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all those He has given Me, but raise them up on the Last Day... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!"

Romans 6:23: The wages of sin is death, but the **GIFT OF GOD** is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior!!

Romans 12:3: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the **FAITH** God has distributed to each of you!!

Romans 4:5-8: To the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness! David says {In Psalm 32:1} the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God's credits righteousness **APART FROM WORKS**: "Blessed are those whose transgressions are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will **NEVER** count against them!"

Ephesians 1:4-8: **IN LOVE HE PREDESTINED US** for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has **FREELY** given us in the One He loves. In Him we have **REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD**, the **FORGIVENESS OF SINS**, in accordance with the riches of **GOD'S GRACE** that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding!!

Romans 11:5,6: At the present time their is a remnant **CHOSEN BY GRACE**. And if by grace, then **IT CANNOT BE BASED ON WORKS**; if it were grace would no longer by grace!

Romans 9:11-18: Before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose **BY ELECTION** might stand; **NOT BY WORKS** but by Him who calls.... Is God unjust? Not at all. For He says to Moses "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy... Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden!

Romans 8:28-30: We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been **CALLED** according to His purpose. For those God foreknew He also **PREDESTINED** to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those He **PREDESTINED**, He also **CALLED**; those He **CALLED**, He also **JUSTIFIED**; those He **JUSTIFIED** He also **GLORIFIED**!!

Romans 8:33-37: Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies... Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?... For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels or demons, neither the present or the future nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord1

**AND SO SALVATION IS 100 PERCENT FREE AND REWARDS ARE 100 PERCENT EARNED**!!

Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LANB** but the **LAMB** will triumph over them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and with Him will be His **CALLED** **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers! {Riding on Heavenly white horses as per Revelation 19:7-20!}

1/19/2018 7:33:08 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Any prayer to the Father is a prayer to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, because the three are one.

Any prayer to the Son is a prayer to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, because the three are one.

Any prayer to the Holy Spirit is a prayer to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, because the three are one.

One God, three Persons.

1/19/2018 9:08:08 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


Ludlow Quotes:

"Any prayer to the Father is a prayer to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, because the three are one."
"Any prayer to the Son is a prayer to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, because the three are one."
"Any prayer to the Holy Spirit is a prayer to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, because the three are one."
"One God, three Persons."

However, God's Word commands that we pray only to the Father 10 times and never mentions to pray to Jesus or the holy spirit or Mary or other any dead saints even once!!

Matthew 6:6,9-11: Jesus commands. "When you **PRAY**, go into your room, close the door and **PRAY TO YOUR FATHER**, who is unseen. Then your **FATHER**, who sees what is done in secret will reward you... This, then, is how you should **PRAY**: “Our **FATHER IN HEAVEN**!!

Luke 11:1-4: The disciples asked Jesus, "Teach us to **PRAY**" Jesus said to His disciples, "When you **PRAY**, say: '**FATHER** , hallowed be your name, Your kingdom come!!"

Anyone who teaches that you can pray to anyone else besides the **FATHER** in Heaven is guilty of the unpardonable sin of **ADDING TO GOD'S WORD**!!

Just like anyone who calls a Roman Catholic Pope **HOLY FATHER** is committing a terrible sin!!

Matthew 23:9: Jesus commands, "Do not call **ANYONE ON EARTH FATHER** for you have **ONE**{Spiritual} **FATHER** and He is in Heaven!! {It is completely obvious that Jesus was referring to only **SPIRITUAL FATHERS** in this context!!}

John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a **JUDGE** for the one does not accept My words: the very words I have spoken will **CONDEMN** them on the Last Day!!"


**THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ALSO CALLED THE SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD 4 TINES IN REVELATION 1:4; 3:1; 4:5 & 5:6!

Revelation 1:4: Grace and peace to you from Him who is, and who was, and who was to come, and from the **SEVEN SPIRITS** **BEFORE HIS THRONE**!!

Revelation 3:1 Jesus says, "These are the words of Him **WHO HOLDS** the **SEVEN SPIRITS** of God!"

Revelation 4:5: **BEFORE THE THRONE**{See Rev 1:4 above}, **SEVEN LAMPS** were blazing. These are the **SEVEN SPIRITS** of God!

Revelation 5:6: He {Jesus} had **SEVEN HORNS** and **SEVEN EYES**, which are the **SEVEN SPIRITS** of God **SENT OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH**!


John 16:12-15: Jesus says, I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth. **HE WILL NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN**, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is **FROM ME** that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive **FROM ME** what he will make known to you.{Since the Spirit will inspire all the writers of the New Testament to write the **WORDS OF GOD** that he received from Jesus and that Jesus received from the **FATHER**}

John 14:23,24: "Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching. My Father will love him and we will make our home with him. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching.{Like the Roman Catholics who teach you can pray to someone other than God the Father} These words you hear are not My own they belong **TO THE FATHER** who sent Me... If you loved Me, you would be glad I am going to the **FATHER**, for the **FATHER IS GREATER THAN I!"


It is also very interesting to not that there will only be **TWO THRONES** for Jesus and His Father in the eternal heavenly New Jerusalem: Revelation 22:3: **THE THRONE OF GOD AND OF THE LAMB**will be in the City!!! {The New Jerusalem} Why doesn't the holy spirit have a **THRONE**??? Why will there only be **TWO THRONES** in the eternal heavenly New Jerusalem???

Revelation 3:21,22: Jesus says, "To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with Me on **MY THRONE**, just as I overcame and sat down with the Father on **HIS THRONE**!

Whereas, the **SEVEN SPIRITS** are **BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD** in Revelation 1:3 and Revelation 4:5 above and do not have a **THRONE OF THEIR OWN** in the Eternal New Jerusalem!!

Revelation 22:8,9: I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard or seen them, I fell down to **WORSHIP** at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this Book. ***WORSHIP GOD**"!!

It is interesting to note that Jesus is **WORSHIPED 12 times in the New Testament and the **WORSHIP** of the holy spirit is not even **WORSHIPED** one time in God's Word!!

Revelation 5:12-14: In a loud voice the were saying: "Worthy is the **LAMB** who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!" Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To Him who sits on the throne and to the **LAMB** be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" The 4 living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and **WORSHIPED**!!{Notice that the holy spirit or 7 spirits of God are not worshiped or even mentioned!!}

1/19/2018 11:10:23 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

looptex1
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,801)
Chatsworth, GA
50, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Jesus did say pray to the Father. But He never said pray ONLY to the Father. Jesus couldn't have prayed to the Son---He was the Son! And had He prayed to the Holy Spirit publicly, everyone would have said huh? what's a Holy Spirit? The concept of the Holy Spirit was revealed gradually by Jesus and later by the apostles---early on in Jesus' ministry no one knew anything about the Holy Spirit.

The Son and the Holy Spirit are equal to the Father in every way. They are all three God. If you pray to one of Them you are praying to all three because God is one. One God, three Persons.
flip fire lud.
If that how we decide what to do or not do, Jesus never said not to smoke pot.
So if we think like you, then it A/OK..

And what do you mean they didn't know anything about the holy spirit?

Have you ever read the old testament? I'm pretty sure they knew, the prophets spoke of him and by him on many occasions.

Why is it that when the Scriptures are plain about something, you have to say things like, "Jesus didn't say not to" or "saint so and so said"
You know a sure fire way to know if you shouldn't do something? When you have to make up excuses to why it isn't wrong.

Jesus told you how to pray, today, it's "they are one, he didn't say not to, or any other reason"

Tomorrow it will be, Jesus said I am the way, but he didn't say, we couldn't get there another way.
Nope he didnt, he said if any climb up any other way they are a thief and a robber, but he didn't say they wouldn't get there.
He also said, no man come unto me except my father draw him, but he didn't say women had to be drawn by the father so I guess they can just go.
I would if they can take a friend.

1/20/2018 2:03:59 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


LUDLOW QUOTES:

"All bishops are not bad these days and not all bishops were good in biblical times, but ancient, medieval, and modern they do have God-given authority over their dioceses, and the pope, the bishop of Rome, the successor to St. Peter, had in the past and has today {Like Pope Francis?} God-given authority over the entire Church on earth." "Do nothing without the bishop."

"The Bible doesn't mention a lot of things Christians have always done. Nor does it list all of Jesus' teachings. See 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and John 21:25."

2 Thessalonians 2:15: Paul said, "Stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you by word of mouth {Which were in my letters to other churches!!} or by letter.


THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and on **EARTH** has been given to **ME** {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 4:7:11-16: To each one of us grace has been given **AS CHRIST APPORTIONED IT**... It is He {Not the church or Bishops} who gives some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ... Speaking the Truth in Love, we will in all things grow up into Him who is the **HEAD**, that is, **CHRIST**. From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and build itself up in Love, as each part does its work!"

Epheshians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the **PRESENT AGE***. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some Pope or Bishop}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

I Timothy 3:2-5: The overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his **WIFE** ... He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him... If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church???

I Timothy 4:1-3: The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught **BY DEMONS**. Such teachings come through **HYPOCRITICAL LIARS**, whose consciences gave been seared as with a hot iron. They **FORBID PEOPLE TO MARRY**!!

In AD 1259 the Roman Catholic Church declared in Roman Catholic permanent doctrine: That all overseers such as popes, cardinals, bishops, priests and nuns were **FORBIDDEN TO MARRY**!!

John 17:17: Jesus prayed to His Father, "Sanctify them though the truth, your **WORD IS TRUTH**!!"

I Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN**, not of perishable seed, but of the imperishable, **THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING WORD OF GOD** For all people are like grass, and their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF GOD ENDURES FOREVER**! And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you!!

John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a **JUDGE** for the one does not accept My words: the very words I have spoken will **CONDEMN** them on the Last Day!!"

I John 2:1-5" Jesus Christ, the Righteous One! He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins! We know that we have come to know Him **IF** we **KEEP** His commands. Whoever says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a **LIAR**, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys His Word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in Him!

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I. Jesus, have sent My angel to give this testimony **FOR THE CHURCHES**!.. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone **ADDS** {Like RC Popes} anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book {Including eternal hell--Rev 14:9-11} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like RC Popes} God will take away from that person any share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem} which are described in this book!"

1/21/2018 7:54:30 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


Quote from ludlowlowell:


The perpetual virginity of Mary, like a lot of doctrines about Mary, fall under 2 Thessalinians 2:15---these doctrines were taught by word of mouth in the Church, not by epistle. According to 2 Thessalonians 2:15 they must be believed even though not written down.


**BUT WHAT DOES 2 THESSALONIANS 2:15 REALLY SAY**??

2 Thessalonians 2:15: Paul said, "Stand firm and hold fast to the teachings passed on to you, whether by **WORD OF MOUTH** or by **LETTER**."

Now Paul only wrote 2 inspired letters to the Thessalonians but he also wrote 12 other inspired letters with many different doctrines to other churches!! Now the Roman Catholic Church teaches that what Paul taught by **WORD OF MOUTH** to the Thessalonians had many other doctrines not found in other Scriptures and only the Roman Catholic Church knows what these unknown doctrines are??? For example: That Mary was the only human person in Bible history that was **SINLESS** that they declared as the **WORDS OF GOD** on December 8th, 1854 {???} which is contradicted by many Scriptures in the inspired **WORDS OF GOD**!!!

Pope Pius IX declared the Immaculate Conception of Mary an article of faith on this day, December 8, 1854. According to his pronouncement in Ineffabilis Deus, Mary was given grace to be sinless??? Making Mary the only human person in Bible history to be sinless???

In general Christians insist that any major doctrine must be clearly backed up by some Scripture. Yet, as the Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture."

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

Isaiah 53:6: We **ALL** like sheep, have gone astray, **EACH OF US** has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of **US ALL**!

Romans 3:22-24: There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for **ALL** have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and **ALL** are justified freely by His grace through he redemption that came by Christ Jesus!

Romans 5:12: Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin and this way **DEATH CAME TO ALL PEOPLE**, because **ALL HAVE SINNED**!!

I John 1:8,10: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.... If we claim we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and **HIS TRUTH IS NOT IN US**!!

I Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.

Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"

I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's love is truly made complete in him!

Matthew 4:4: Jesus says, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on **EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!"

Luke 8:15: Jesus says, "But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the **WORD**, retain it, and by perseverance produce a crop."

John 17:17: Jesus prays to His Father, "Sanctify them by the Truth, **YOUR WORD IS TRUTH**!"

Acts 20:32: Paul says, "Now I commit you to God and to the **WORD OF HIS GRACE**, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified!"

Romans 10:17: Consequently, **FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE**, and the message is heard **THROUGH THE WORD OF CHRIST**!

James 1:18; He chose to give us **BIRTH THROUGH THE WORD** of Truth!!

I Corinthians 15:2: By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the **WORD** preached to you. Otherwise you have believed in vain!

2 Corinthians 4:2: We do not use deception, nor do we distort the **WORD OF GOD**!

Ephesians 1:`13: You also were included in Christ **WHEN** you heard the **WORD** of Truth, the gospel of your salvation.

Ephesians 2:17: Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the **WORD OF GOD**!

Colossians 1:25: I have become its servant by the commission God gave to me to present to you the **WORD OF GOD IN ALL ITS FULLNESS**!

Colossians 3:16: Let the **WORD OF CHRIST** dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom!

I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**!

2 Timothy 2:15: Do your best to present yourselves to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who **CORRECTLY HANDLES THE WORD ** of truth!

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on *EARTH has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the **PRESENT AGE***. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

1/21/2018 8:18:57 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


Quote from ludlowlowell:

The brothers and sisters of Jesus, as described in the New Testament, were cousins of Jesus. The Aramaic word for "brother" is "aha" and aha means either brother or cousin.




Now the Roman Catholics state that the brothers and sisters mentioned in the above Scriptures were really **COUSINS** since there is no Hebrew or Aramaic word for **COUSINS**. However, the NT was written in Greek, the most exact language in the world; and the Greek word for cousin is **ANEPSIOS** which is used in Colossians 4:10 which states: "My fellow prisoner Aristarchus sends you his greetings, as does Mark, the **COUSIN**{Anepsios} of Barnabas!!" And so the NT writers in Greek knew the exact word for cousins but **DID NOT USE IT** in referring to the brothers of Jesus and Mary's sons!! Only a few sentences in the NT are written in Aramaic!!

Actually if Mary did not have union with her husband, Joseph, she would be sinning as per the NT command in I Corinthians 7:3,4: "The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise **THE WIFE TO HER HUSBAND**!! The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband!!"

Matthew 12:46,47: While Jesus was still talking to the crowd , His mother and **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} stood outside, waiting to speak to Him. Someone told Him, "Your mother and **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} are standing outside, waiting to speak to you." Jesus replied, " Who is my mother , and who are My brothers?" Pointing to His disciples, He said, **HERE** are My mother and My brothers. For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and **MOTHER!!"

Mark 8:19-21: Now Jesus' mother and **BROTHERS** came to see Him, bur they were not able to get near Him because of the crowd. Someone told Him, "Your mother and **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} are standing outside waiting to see you." Jesus replied, " **MY MOTHER** and brothers are those who hear God's Word and put it into practice!"

John 7:2,3: When the Jewish Festival of Tabernacles was near, Jesus' **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} said to Him, "Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do! No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world. For even His **OWN BROTHERS** did not believe in Him! {However, two of the brothers of Jesus named James and Jude believed later and wrote the inspired books of James and Jude!}

Mark 6:3: The Jews in Nazareth said, "Isn't this Mary's son and the **BROTHER** {Adelphgos} of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't His **SISTERS** {Adelphe} here with us?"

Matthew 13:55,56: The Jews in Nazareth said, "Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't His mothers name Mary, and aren't His **BROTHERS** {Adelphos} **JAMES** {See Acts 1:14 & Luke 24:10 & Galatians 1:19 below!}, **JOSEPH** {See Mark 15:47 below!}, Simon and Judas? Aren't all His **SISTERS** {Adelphe} with us?"

Mark 15:46,47: He rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. Mary Magdalene and Mary the **MOTHER OF JOSEPH** saw where He was laid!

Luke 24:10: It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the **MOTHER OF JAMES**, and the others with them who told this to the apostles!

Acts 1:14: They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His **BROTHERS** {Adelphos}!!

I Corinthians 9:5: Paul said, Don't we have a right to take as believing wife along with us, as do the other Apostles and the **LORD'S BROTHERS** and Peter?

Galatians 1:19: Paul said, "I saw none of the other Apostles--only **JAMES THE LORD'S BROTHER**!!,

Matthew 1:24,25: When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as His wife. But he had **NO UNION WITH HER **UNTIL** she gave birth to a Son. And he gave Him the name Jesus!

IS IT AN UNPARDONABLE SIN TO ADD WORDS OR TAKE WORDS AWAY FROM THE INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD IN THE NEW TESTAMENT**??

I Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.

Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"

I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's love is truly made complete in him!

Matthew 4:4: Jesus says, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on **EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!"

John 17:17: Jesus prays to His Father, "Sanctify them by the Truth, **YOUR WORD IS TRUTH**!"

Acts 20:32: Paul says, "Now I commit you to God and to the **WORD OF HIS GRACE**, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified!"

James 1:18; He chose to give us **BIRTH THROUGH THE WORD** of Truth!!

I Corinthians 15:2: By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the **WORD** preached to you. Otherwise you have believed in vain!

2 Corinthians 4:2: We do not use deception, nor do we distort the **WORD OF GOD**!

Ephesians 2:17: Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the **WORD OF GOD**!

Colossians 1:25: I have become its servant by the commission God gave to me to present to you the **WORD OF GOD IN ALL ITS FULLNESS**!

I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**!

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the **PRESENT AGE***. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

1/22/2018 12:12:28 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


**THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES THAT THE BIBLE IS A DEAD LETTER WHICH NEEDS TO INTERPRETED FOR YOU**

**ROMAN CATHOLIC QUOTES:

""The very nature of the Bible ought to prove to any thinking man the impossibility of its being the one safe method to find out what the Savior taught." (Ibid., p. 67)

"The Scriptures indeed is a divine book but it is a **DEAD LETTER**, which has to be explained." (Our Priesthood, p. 155)

"The simple fact is that the Bible, like all **DEAD LETTERS**, calls for a living interpreter." (The Faith of Millions, p. 155)

"The Bible was not intended to be a textbook of Christian religion." (Catholic Facts, p. 50)

"The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as Supreme Pastor and teacher of all the faithful--who confirms his brethren in the faith--he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals.... The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, ‘they exercise the supreme Magisterium,’ above all in an Ecumenical Council. When the Church through its supreme Magistrium proposes a doctrine ‘for belief as being divinely revealed,’ and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions ‘must be adhered to with the obedience of faith.’ This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine revelation itself." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #891, 1994 edition)

“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.” (Pope Pius V}

LUDLOW QUOTES:

Prophetic says, "In general Christians insist that any major doctrine be backed up by scripture."

WRONG!!!! WRONG!!!! REAL WRONG!!! VERY, VERY WRONG!!! A VERY, VERY HERETICAL NOTION!!!

The idea that every doctrine must be found in scripture... This false notion is contradicted by 2 Thessalonians 2:15, where Paul instructs the early Christians that they must adhere to all doctrines, whether written down in epistles or passed on in the Church by word of mouth.????

Why do Catholics believe in the immaculate conception of Mary, or the sinlessness of Mary, or the perpetual virginity of Mary, or the assumption of Mary body and soul into Heaven? True, none of these doctrines are explicitly stated in scripture---in the epistles---but they were passed down in the Church by word of mouth, so belief in them is **REQUIRED FOR SALVATION**????.


**BUT WHAT DOES 2 THESSALONIANS 2:15 REALLY SAY**??

2 Thessalonians 2:15: Paul said, "Stand firm and hold fast to the teachings passed on to you, whether by **WORD OF MOUTH** or by **LETTER**."

Now Paul only wrote 2 inspired letters to the Thessalonians but he also wrote 12 other inspired letters with many different doctrines to other churches!! Now the Roman Catholic Church teaches that what Paul taught by **WORD OF MOUTH** to the Thessalonians had many other doctrines not found in other Scriptures and only the Roman Catholic Church knows what these unknown doctrines are??? For example: That Mary was the only human person in Bible history that was **SINLESS** that they declared as the **WORDS OF GOD** on December 8th, 1854 {???} which is contradicted by many Scriptures in the inspired **WORDS OF GOD**!!!

Pope Pius IX declared the Immaculate Conception of Mary an article of faith on this day, December 8, 1854. According to his pronouncement in Ineffabilis Deus, Mary was given grace to be sinless??? Making Mary the only human person in Bible history to be sinless???

In general Christians insist that any major doctrine must be clearly backed up by some Scripture. Yet, as the Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture."

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S INSPIRED WORD SAY**??

Isaiah 53:6: We **ALL** like sheep, have gone astray, **EACH OF US** has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of **US ALL**!

Romans 3:22-24: There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for **ALL** have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and **ALL** are justified freely by His grace through he redemption that came by Christ Jesus!

Romans 5:12: Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin and this way **DEATH CAME TO ALL PEOPLE**, because **ALL HAVE SINNED**!!

I John 1:8,10: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.... If we claim we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and **HIS TRUTH IS NOT IN US**!!

**THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES THAT THE BIBLE MUST BE INTERPRETED FOR YOU BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH**

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

119:97: Oh how I love your law, I meditate on it all day long.
119:148: My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I meditate on your promises.

Acts 17:11: Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and EXAMINED the SCRIPTURES *EVERY DAY*!!

**DOES GOD'S WORD SAY THAT *ADDING** OR **TAKING WORDS** AWAY FROM GOD'S WORD IS AN UNPARDONABLE SIN**??

Deuteronomy 4:2: The Lord said, "Do not **ADD** to what I command you and do not **SUBTRACT** from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you!!"

Deuteronomy 12:32: The Lord said, "See that you do all I command you, do not **ADD** to it or **TAKE AWAY** from it!!"

Proverbs 30:5,6: Every Word of God is **FLAWLESS**, He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him! Do not **ADD* to His Words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a **LIAR**!!

Deuteronomy 18:17-19: The Lord said to Moses, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among your fellow Israelites, and I will put My words in His mouth. He will tell them **EVERYTHING** I command Him. I Myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to My words that the Prophet speaks in My name!!"

John 14:21-24: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and keeps them is the one who loves Me... Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching, My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them.. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching. These words you hear are not My own; they belong to the Father who sent Me!" {See Deut 18:17-19 above}

I Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.

Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"

I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's love is truly made complete in him!

Matthew 4:4: Jesus says, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on **EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!"

Luke 8:15: Jesus says, "But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the **WORD**, retain it, and by perseverance produce a crop."

John 17:17: Jesus prays to His Father, "Sanctify them by the Truth, **YOUR WORD IS TRUTH**!"

1/22/2018 12:58:35 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


**THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES THAT THE BIBLE IS A DEAD LETTER WHICH NEEDS TO INTERPRETED FOR YOU** {CONTINUED}

Acts 20:32: Paul says, "Now I commit you to God and to the **WORD OF HIS GRACE**, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified!"

Romans 10:17: Consequently, **FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE**, and the message is heard **THROUGH THE WORD OF CHRIST**!

James 1:18; He chose to give us **BIRTH THROUGH THE WORD** of Truth!!

I Corinthians 15:2: By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the **WORD** preached to you. Otherwise you have believed in vain!

2 Corinthians 4:2: We do not use deception, nor do we distort the **WORD OF GOD**!

Ephesians 1:`13: You also were included in Christ **WHEN** you heard the **WORD** of Truth, the gospel of your salvation.

Ephesians 2:17: Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the **WORD OF GOD**!

Colossians 1:25: I have become its servant by the commission God gave to me to present to you the **WORD OF GOD IN ALL ITS FULLNESS**!

Colossians 3:16: Let the **WORD OF CHRIST** dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom!

I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**!

2 Timothy 2:15: Do your best to present yourselves to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who **CORRECTLY HANDLES THE WORD ** of truth!

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC popes} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the ***PRESENT AGE*** but also in the one to come. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

I Timothy 3:2-5: Now the **OVERSEER** is to be above reproach, faithful to his **WIFE** ... He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him. If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, **HOW CAN HE TAKE CARE OF GOD'S CHURCH**!!

I Timothy 4:1-3: The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by **DEMONS**! Such teachings come through hypocritical **LIARS**, whose consciences has been seared as with a hot iron. **THEY FORBID PEOPLE TO MARRY**!!

In AD 1159 the Roman Catholic Church decreed that all **OVERSEERS** such as popes, cardinals, bishops, priests and nuns are **FOBIDDEN TO MARRY**!!

**THE SATANIC ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DECLARES MARY AS REDEEMER**

"The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: That we obtain everything through Mary." (Pope Pius IX)

"To such extent did Mary suffer and almost die with her suffering and dying Son; to such extent did she surrender her maternal rights over her Son for man's salvation... that we may rightly say she redeemed the human race together with Christ." (Benedict XV}

"In fact, by being assumed into heaven she has not laid aside the office of salvation but by the manifold intercession she continues to obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation." (John Paul II, Dives in Misericordia, 1980, quoting Lumen Gentium)

1/22/2018 7:17:57 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


Quote from ludlowlowell:

Proph, are you smart enough to interpret the Bible for yourself? Before you answer, check Acts 8:31 and 2 Peter 1:20.


Acts 8:30-35: Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet{Isaiah 53:7,8 about Jesus} Do you know what you are reading," Philip asked "How can I," he said,"unless someone explains it to me!

Obviously this unsaved eunuch was not born from above by the Holy Spirit and therefore could not understand this prophecy about Jesus and was soon saved.

2 Peter 1:20,21: Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophets own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will {Like RC popes!!}, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit!!

This Scripture just enforces the idea that God's Word is always inspired by the Holy Spirit and its origin never had its origin in humans like popes who want to sinfully **ADD** or**TAKE WORDS AWAY** from God's inspired words!!

The Roman Catholic Church doesn't want their unsaved Catholics to read God's Word because then they may get saved and then immediately leave their Satanic Church!!

I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men {Like RC popes} but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**, **WHICH IS INDEED AT WORK IN YOU WHO BELIEVE**!!

2 Timothy 2:15: Do your best to present yourselves to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who **CORRECTLY HANDLES THE WORD ** of truth!

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC popes} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the ***PRESENT AGE*** but also in the one to come. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

1/22/2018 8:01:47 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Jesus is the president and the pope is the vice president. The president has left the vice president in charge while he is away. That is why rejection of the pope equals rejection of Christ.

1/22/2018 8:11:27 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

looptex1
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,801)
Chatsworth, GA
50, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Jesus is the president and the pope is the vice president. The president has left the vice president in charge while he is away. That is why rejection of the pope equals rejection of Christ.
and the Scriptures doesn't even come close to supporting this idea.

The Scriptures say, we are heirs and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.

There is no such things as discussing scriptures with catholics, they don't use them.
They rely on some other man's words, like the word of God isn't good enough.

1/22/2018 8:15:39 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


What is the word of God and how do you know it is the word of God?

1/22/2018 8:28:16 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

rey2140
Over 1,000 Posts (1,110)
Sullivan, OH
48, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Any prayer to the Father is a prayer to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, because the three are one.

Any prayer to the Son is a prayer to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, because the three are one.

Any prayer to the Holy Spirit is a prayer to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, because the three are one.

One God, three Persons.


Romans 8:26-27 says the Holy Spirit intercedes for us with groanings to deep for words. He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because he intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. This is not a direct quote.

Romans 8:34 says Jesus intercedes for us also.

According to your logic, when Christ was alive and prayed, he was praying to himself. If that's the case, then it was by his own power he raised himself.

How do we pray to those who would intercede for us? The translator stands in the middle and relates what is said.

1/22/2018 8:44:20 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

looptex1
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,801)
Chatsworth, GA
50, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from ludlowlowell:
What is the word of God and how do you know it is the word of God?
the Scriptures. ..how do I know?
That an easy answer, Jesus told you who he would send, and what he would do,you just refuse to believe Jesus doesn't lie.

1/22/2018 9:36:08 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Quote from rey2140:
Romans 8:26-27 says the Holy Spirit intercedes for us with groanings to deep for words. He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because he intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. This is not a direct quote.

Romans 8:34 says Jesus intercedes for us also.

According to your logic, when Christ was alive and prayed, he was praying to himself. If that's the case, then it was by his own power he raised himself.

How do we pray to those who would intercede for us? The translator stands in the middle and relates what is said.


Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are all co-equal. Jesus, in His human nature, was subordinate to God and needed to pray to God. In Jesus' divine nature Jesus is praised, adored, and worshipped, just as the Father is praised, worshipped, and adored. The union of divine and human natures in Jesus---this is what Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox call the "hypostatic union".

How can this be? Are there two Jesuses? No, there is only one Jesus, only one Person, but two natures in that person. Jesus in His divine nature created the entire universe, along with the Father and Holy Spirit, but Jesus in His human nature had to be taught to read, write, walk, talk, and use the potty just like any other child.

It is mysterious, and I don't think the human mind can fully grasp it, not even very holy Christians, not even most human souls in Heaven.

1/22/2018 9:51:40 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Quote from looptex1:
the Scriptures. ..how do I know?
That an easy answer, Jesus told you who he would send, and what he would do,you just refuse to believe Jesus doesn't lie.


Yes, Looptex, Jesus sent forth the apostles, the first priests and bishops of His Church. And the next generation of bishops and priests had the same authority as the apostles. And the next generation after that, and the next generation after that, down to the present day, what we call "apostolic succession".

Let's see now...a.d. 29 to a.d. 393...how many generations is that? Is twenty years a generation? 25 years? So, 15 to 18 generations from the time of the Synod (Council) of Hippo, where the bishops of the Catholic Church met and decided which Books to include in the Bible and which ones not.

So to answe my own question, how do we know that the Bible IS the Bible? How do we know that the scripture we read and trust really is the scripture? How do we know Psalms is inspired and not IV Maccabees? How do we know Micah is inspired and not Didache? How do we know Hebrews is inspired and not the Epistle of Barnabas? Only because the Catholic Church says so.

That Bible you have in your hand---that Bible you believe in so passionately---next time you read it, thank the Catholic Church. That's where it came from.

1/23/2018 6:40:25 AMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

rey2140
Over 1,000 Posts (1,110)
Sullivan, OH
48, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are all co-equal. Jesus, in His human nature, was subordinate to God and needed to pray to God. In Jesus' divine nature Jesus is praised, adored, and worshipped, just as the Father is praised, worshipped, and adored. The union of divine and human natures in Jesus---this is what Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox call the "hypostatic union".

How can this be? Are there two Jesuses? No, there is only one Jesus, only one Person, but two natures in that person. Jesus in His divine nature created the entire universe, along with the Father and Holy Spirit, but Jesus in His human nature had to be taught to read, write, walk, talk, and use the potty just like any other child.

It is mysterious, and I don't think the human mind can fully grasp it, not even very holy Christians, not even most human souls in Heaven.


You gave an argument for the existence of a Trinity, but you didn't answer my question.

My question is how do you pray to that which intercedes for us?

The doctrine of Trinity is an argument of men. Some say it exists while others not. Whether one believes in a Trinity or not does not effect the status of salvation.
It is a doctrine that brings discord rather than unity.

1/23/2018 6:51:05 AMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

looptex1
Over 4,000 Posts! (4,801)
Chatsworth, GA
50, joined Jun. 2008


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Yes, Looptex, Jesus sent forth the apostles, the first priests and bishops of His Church. And the next generation of bishops and priests had the same authority as the apostles. And the next generation after that, and the next generation after that, down to the present day, what we call "apostolic succession".

Let's see now...a.d. 29 to a.d. 393...how many generations is that? Is twenty years a generation? 25 years? So, 15 to 18 generations from the time of the Synod (Council) of Hippo, where the bishops of the Catholic Church met and decided which Books to include in the Bible and which ones not.

So to answe my own question, how do we know that the Bible IS the Bible? How do we know that the scripture we read and trust really is the scripture? How do we know Psalms is inspired and not IV Maccabees? How do we know Micah is inspired and not Didache? How do we know Hebrews is inspired and not the Epistle of Barnabas? Only because the Catholic Church says so.

That Bible you have in your hand---that Bible you believe in so passionately---next time you read it, thank the Catholic Church. That's where it came from.
nice try lud.
Someone who doesn't know the Scriptures might believe that.

But those us who do, we know Jesus said, and I will send another comforter, and when he is come, HE will guide you.

Not once are the apostles or disciples called to guide, but to tell the gospel.
Not only certain does he tell them to lead his people, he does that himself.

As for thanking the Catholic Church, for what? Putting the Scriptures in one place?

As I've said, time life placed many songs and artist in a package, they neither created the songs nor the artist, nor even decided is they were the greatest.

1/23/2018 7:58:33 AMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Quote from rey2140:
You gave an argument for the existence of a Trinity, but you didn't answer my question.

My question is how do you pray to that which intercedes for us?

The doctrine of Trinity is an argument of men. Some say it exists while others not. Whether one believes in a Trinity or not does not effect the status of salvation.
It is a doctrine that brings discord rather than unity.


How do you pray to the One Who is interceding for us? How else can we get Him to intercede for us if we don't pray to Him? "Lord Jesus, please intercede to the Father for me." Is that not a prayer?

Is Jesus God Incarnate or is He just a man? There are Bible verses to support both positions. Is God a Trinity or not? There are Bible verses to support both of THESE positions. Is the Holy Spirit God or is He just a spirit, kind of like Casper the friendly ghost? The Bible has very little to say on this. That's why we need the Church---the Catholic Church---with her infallible teaching authority to explain these kinds of things.

Some more examples: are "call no man father" and "this is my body...this is my blood..." supposed to be taken literally or figuratively? What about "call no man teacher"? What about the literal seven-day creation? What about the thousand-year reign of Christ, "if your right eye offend thee pluck it out", "he who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery", "thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church"? Are these phrases to be taken literally or not, and if not, what do they mean? "Oh, just look it up in the Bible" won't cut it---the Bible can be interpreted in different ways. The Bible just by itself is not a good guide at all. The Bible as taught, explained, and interpreted by the Church comes to life and makes perfect sense.

In Protestantism everybody forms opinions about these things but that's all they are---human opinions. When the wind blows a different direction these opinions crumble like a sand castle and new opinions are formed.

In Catholicism we have solid answers to these things, answers that don't change every week or month, answers that don't depend on some individual priest's opinion (or even the pope's personal opinion), answers that are the same in Italy, Poland, Bolivia, Mexico, the Phillipines, Brazil, and France. Answers that stay the same century after century.

1/23/2018 12:12:46 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

rey2140
Over 1,000 Posts (1,110)
Sullivan, OH
48, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from ludlowlowell:
How do you pray to the One Who is interceding for us? How else can we get Him to intercede for us if we don't pray to Him? "Lord Jesus, please intercede to the Father for me." Is that not a prayer?


But again, an interpreter stands in the middle and relates. IOW, me being Italian and you English, would need an interpreter. Though we have one, I would not be talking to the interpreter because I would be talking to you. All the interpreter does is relate in one language spoken of in another. Still I would be speaking to you.
The Holy Spirit relates to God what our feeble human condition cannot. What is in the heart that we do not always have words for.

1/23/2018 12:24:36 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Quote from rey2140:
But again, an interpreter stands in the middle and relates. IOW, me being Italian and you English, would need an interpreter. Though we have one, I would not be talking to the interpreter because I would be talking to you. All the interpreter does is relate in one language spoken of in another. Still I would be speaking to you.
The Holy Spirit relates to God what our feeble human condition cannot. What is in the heart that we do not always have words for.


Even if what you say is true, how does that prohibit us from praying to the Son and to the Holy Spirit? Are not they co-equal? Are they not all three equally God?

1/23/2018 2:30:06 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


More ridiculous quotes by Ludlow:

"What do we find in the Catholic Church? The same set of core doctrines, taught the same in Spain, the U.S., Poland, Zimbabwe, and the Phillipines. The same set of core doctrines taught in the first, third, eighth, seventeenth, and twenty-first centuries."

"Why do Catholics believe in the immaculate conception of Mary, or the sinlessness of Mary, or the perpetual virginity of Mary, or the assumption of Mary body and soul into Heaven? True, none of these doctrines are explicitly stated in scripture---in the epistles---but they were passed down in the Church by word of mouth, so belief in them is **REQUIRED FOR SALVATION**????."

However:

Pope Pius IX declared the Immaculate Conception of Mary an article of faith on this day, December 8, 1854. According to his pronouncement in Ineffabilis Deus, Mary was given grace to be sinless??? Making Mary the only human person in Bible history to be sinless??? And since this belief is, according to Ludlow, **REQUIRED FOR SALVATION** then no one could have salvation before December 8th, 1854????

**THE SATANIC ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DECLARES MARY AS REDEEMER IN THE 20TH CENTURY**!!

"The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: That we obtain everything through Mary." (Pope Pius IX)

"To such extent did Mary suffer and almost die with her suffering and dying Son; to such extent did she surrender her maternal rights over her Son for man's salvation... that we may rightly say she redeemed the human race together with Christ." (Benedict XV}

"In fact, by being assumed into heaven she has not laid aside the office of salvation but by the manifold intercession she continues to obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation." (John Paul II, Dives in Misericordia, 1980, quoting Lumen Gentium)

And so according to Ludlow the belief that Mary is now our **REDEEMER is **REQUIRED FOR SALVATION**, no one could be **REDEEMED** before the 20th Century????


I Timothy 3:2-5: Now the **OVERSEER** is to be above reproach, faithful to his **WIFE** ... He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him. If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, **HOW CAN HE TAKE CARE OF GOD'S CHURCH**!!

I Timothy 4:1-3: The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by **DEMONS**! Such teachings come through hypocritical **LIARS**, whose consciences has been seared as with a hot iron. **THEY FORBID PEOPLE TO MARRY**!!

In **AD 1159** the Roman Catholic Church decreed that all **OVERSEERS** such as popes, cardinals, bishops, priests and nuns are **FOBIDDEN TO MARRY**!!


**AND YET LUDLOW CLAIMS THAT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC DOCTRINES IN THE FIRST AND TWENTY- FIRST CENTURIES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME???? When Ludlow said: "What do we find in the Catholic Church? The same set of core doctrines, taught the same in Spain, the U.S., Poland, Zimbabwe, and the Phillipines. The same set of core doctrines taught in the first, third, eighth, seventeenth, and twenty-first centuries."????

And then in **AD 1546** the Roman Catholic Church **ADDED** the 10 books of the Apocrypha to their Bibles????

The Roman Catholic Church doesn't want their unsaved Catholics to read God's Word **DAILY** because then they may get saved and then immediately leave their Satanic Roman Catholic Church!!

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

119:97: Oh how I love your law, I meditate on it all day long.
119:148: My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I meditate on your promises.

Acts 17:11: Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and EXAMINED the SCRIPTURES *EVERY DAY*!!

I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men {Like RC popes} but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**, **WHICH IS INDEED AT WORK IN YOU WHO BELIEVE**!!

2 Timothy 2:15: Do your best to present yourselves to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who **CORRECTLY HANDLES THE WORD ** of truth!

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC popes} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the ***PRESENT AGE*** but also in the one to come. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

1/23/2018 4:34:20 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


"Immaculate Mary, your praises we sing, you reign now in splendor with Jesus our King..."

--words to a Catholic hymn

1/23/2018 4:48:47 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 
freegratis
Irving, TX
51, joined Dec. 2011


Quote from rey2140:
Romans 8:26-27 says the Holy Spirit intercedes for us with groanings to deep for words. He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because he intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. This is not a direct quote.

Romans 8:34 says Jesus intercedes for us also.

According to your logic, when Christ was alive and prayed, he was praying to himself. If that's the case, then it was by his own power he raised himself.

How do we pray to those who would intercede for us? The translator stands in the middle and relates what is said.


Actually, all 3 persons of the God-head take credit for raising Jesus.

1/23/2018 5:13:39 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


Is there any evidence that Peter who denied the Lord 3 times was the **HEAD** of the early church in God's Word??

God chose to inspire Paul to write 92 chapters in God's Word. John 50 chapters, Luke 52 chapters, Matthew 28 chapters, Mark 16 chapters and Peter only 8 chapters.

Acts 9:15: The Lord said to Ananias, "Go!, This man {Paul} is **MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT** to proclaim My name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel!!"

Galatians 2:11-15: Paul said, "When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly **IN THE WRONG**! Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him {Peter}in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. When I saw they were **NOT ACTING WITH THE TRUTH** of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? We who are Jews by birth are not Gentile sinners know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ!"

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to **ME** {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 4:11-16: "It was He {Jesus} who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ... Speaking the Truth in Love, we will in all things grow up into Him who is the **HEAD**, that is, **CHRIST**. From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and build itself up in Love, as each part does its work!"

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the ***PRESENT AGE*** but also in the one to come. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

Colossians 1:18: Christ is the ***HEAD** of the body, the **CHURCH**, so that in **EVERYTHING** **HE** might have the **SUPREMACY**!!

Matthew 16:13-23: Jesus asked His disciples, "Who do people say the son of man is?'... Simon peter said, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, Blessed are you Simon son of Jonah, for this was not **REVEALED TO YOU** by flesh and blood, but **BY MY FATHER** in heaven! And I tell you that you are Peter {petros}, and on this **ROCK** {*PETRA* Jesus} I will build **MY CHURCH** and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..... From that time on Jesus began to explain to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things a the hands of the chief priests and the teachers of the law, {When Peter denied the Lord 3 times} and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. Peter {petros} took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. "Never Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you." Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, **SATAN**! You are a **STUMBLING BLOCK** to Me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns!"

Jesus is called the **ROCK**{Petra} in God's Word while Peter means a **STONE** {Petros} in Greek. And so the **ROCK** that Jesus will build **HIS CHURCH** on is the statement of Peter {petros} revealed to him by the Father; is that "JESUS IS THE MESSIAH, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD!!"

I Corinthians 19:4: The Israelites all ate from the same **SPIRITUAL food and drank the same **SPIRITUAL** drink, for they drank from the **SPIRITUAL **ROCK** {**PETRA**} and that **ROCK** {**PETRA**} was **CHRIST**!!

Actually the Roman Catholics are not God's church since they do not follow God's Word Jesus Christ not Peter is the Head of everything in God's church. Jesus gave Peter and all of the Apostles special gifts to forgive sins or not to forgive sins {Example Ananias and Saphira} but loosing and binding could not possibly mean changing any of the 400 NT laws in God's New Covenant which is an unpardonable sin. The Roman Catholic Church has added a whole lot of Satanic garbage to God's Sacred Word. Such as the ridiculous claim that Peter and not Jesus is the **HEAD** of God's Chruch, that Mary was a sinless virgin throughout her entire life even though Jesus had many brothers and a sister and God's Word states that **ALL* have sinned and are in need of salvation. That you should pray to anyone but the Heavenly Father in Jesus name. That Jesus Christ has to be sacrificed again and again in Satanic Masses or Messes for the forgiveness of sins. The Roman Catholic church have preached many Satanic doctrines and all of their followers will surely go to hell if they do not repent.

1/23/2018 5:31:19 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


More ridiculous quotes by Ludlow:

"What do we find in the Catholic Church? The same set of core doctrines, taught the same in Spain, the U.S., Poland, Zimbabwe, and the Phillipines. The same set of core doctrines taught in the first, third, eighth, seventeenth, and twenty-first centuries."

"Why do Catholics believe in the immaculate conception of Mary, or the sinlessness of Mary, or the perpetual virginity of Mary, or the assumption of Mary body and soul into Heaven? True, none of these doctrines are explicitly stated in scripture---in the epistles---but they were passed down in the Church by word of mouth, so belief in them is **REQUIRED FOR SALVATION**????."

However:

Pope Pius IX declared the Immaculate Conception of Mary an article of faith on this day, December 8, 1854. According to his pronouncement in Ineffabilis Deus, Mary was given grace to be sinless??? Making Mary the only human person in Bible history to be sinless??? And since this belief is, according to Ludlow, **REQUIRED FOR SALVATION** then no one could have salvation before December 8th, 1854????

**THE SATANIC ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DECLARES MARY AS REDEEMER IN THE 20TH CENTURY**!!

"The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: That we obtain everything through Mary." (Pope Pius IX)

"To such extent did Mary suffer and almost die with her suffering and dying Son; to such extent did she surrender her maternal rights over her Son for man's salvation... that we may rightly say she redeemed the human race together with Christ." (Benedict XV}

"In fact, by being assumed into heaven she has not laid aside the office of salvation but by the manifold intercession she continues to obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation." (John Paul II, Dives in Misericordia, 1980, quoting Lumen Gentium)

And so according to Ludlow the belief that Mary is now our **REDEEMER is **REQUIRED FOR SALVATION**, no one could be **REDEEMED** before the 20th Century????


I Timothy 3:2-5: Now the **OVERSEER** is to be above reproach, faithful to his **WIFE** ... He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him. If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, **HOW CAN HE TAKE CARE OF GOD'S CHURCH**!!

I Timothy 4:1-3: The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by **DEMONS**! Such teachings come through hypocritical **LIARS**, whose consciences has been seared as with a hot iron. **THEY FORBID PEOPLE TO MARRY**!!

In **AD 1159** the Roman Catholic Church decreed that all **OVERSEERS** such as popes, cardinals, bishops, priests and nuns are **FOBIDDEN TO MARRY**!!


**AND YET LUDLOW CLAIMS THAT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC DOCTRINES IN THE FIRST AND TWENTY- FIRST CENTURIES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME???? When Ludlow said: "What do we find in the Catholic Church? The same set of core doctrines, taught the same in Spain, the U.S., Poland, Zimbabwe, and the Phillipines. The same set of core doctrines taught in the first, third, eighth, seventeenth, and twenty-first centuries."????

And then in **AD 1546** the Roman Catholic Church **ADDED** the 10 books of the Apocrypha to their Bibles????

The Roman Catholic Church doesn't want their unsaved Catholics to read God's Word **DAILY** because then they may get saved and then immediately leave their Satanic Roman Catholic Church!!

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

119:97: Oh how I love your law, I meditate on it all day long.
119:148: My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I meditate on your promises.

Acts 17:11: Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and EXAMINED the SCRIPTURES *EVERY DAY*!!

I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men {Like RC popes} but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**, **WHICH IS INDEED AT WORK IN YOU WHO BELIEVE**!!

2 Timothy 2:15: Do your best to present yourselves to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who **CORRECTLY HANDLES THE WORD ** of truth!

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC popes} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the ***PRESENT AGE*** but also in the one to come. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

1/23/2018 5:39:59 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

rey2140
Over 1,000 Posts (1,110)
Sullivan, OH
48, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from prophetic774:
More ridiculous quotes by Ludlow:

"What do we find in the Catholic Church? The same set of core doctrines, taught the same in Spain, the U.S., Poland, Zimbabwe, and the Phillipines. The same set of core doctrines taught in the first, third, eighth, seventeenth, and twenty-first centuries."

"Why do Catholics believe in the immaculate conception of Mary, or the sinlessness of Mary, or the perpetual virginity of Mary, or the assumption of Mary body and soul into Heaven? True, none of these doctrines are explicitly stated in scripture---in the epistles---but they were passed down in the Church by word of mouth, so belief in them is **REQUIRED FOR SALVATION**????."

However:

Pope Pius IX declared the Immaculate Conception of Mary an article of faith on this day, December 8, 1854. According to his pronouncement in Ineffabilis Deus, Mary was given grace to be sinless??? Making Mary the only human person in Bible history to be sinless??? And since this belief is, according to Ludlow, **REQUIRED FOR SALVATION** then no one could have salvation before December 8th, 1854????

**THE SATANIC ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DECLARES MARY AS REDEEMER IN THE 20TH CENTURY**!!

"The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: That we obtain everything through Mary." (Pope Pius IX)

"To such extent did Mary suffer and almost die with her suffering and dying Son; to such extent did she surrender her maternal rights over her Son for man's salvation... that we may rightly say she redeemed the human race together with Christ." (Benedict XV}

"In fact, by being assumed into heaven she has not laid aside the office of salvation but by the manifold intercession she continues to obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation." (John Paul II, Dives in Misericordia, 1980, quoting Lumen Gentium)

And so according to Ludlow the belief that Mary is now our **REDEEMER is **REQUIRED FOR SALVATION**, no one could be **REDEEMED** before the 20th Century????


I Timothy 3:2-5: Now the **OVERSEER** is to be above reproach, faithful to his **WIFE** ... He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him. If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, **HOW CAN HE TAKE CARE OF GOD'S CHURCH**!!

I Timothy 4:1-3: The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by **DEMONS**! Such teachings come through hypocritical **LIARS**, whose consciences has been seared as with a hot iron. **THEY FORBID PEOPLE TO MARRY**!!

In **AD 1159** the Roman Catholic Church decreed that all **OVERSEERS** such as popes, cardinals, bishops, priests and nuns are **FOBIDDEN TO MARRY**!!


**AND YET LUDLOW CLAIMS THAT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC DOCTRINES IN THE FIRST AND TWENTY- FIRST CENTURIES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME???? When Ludlow said: "What do we find in the Catholic Church? The same set of core doctrines, taught the same in Spain, the U.S., Poland, Zimbabwe, and the Phillipines. The same set of core doctrines taught in the first, third, eighth, seventeenth, and twenty-first centuries."????

And then in **AD 1546** the Roman Catholic Church **ADDED** the 10 books of the Apocrypha to their Bibles????

The Roman Catholic Church doesn't want their unsaved Catholics to read God's Word **DAILY** because then they may get saved and then immediately leave their Satanic Roman Catholic Church!!

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

119:97: Oh how I love your law, I meditate on it all day long.
119:148: My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I meditate on your promises.

Acts 17:11: Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and EXAMINED the SCRIPTURES *EVERY DAY*!!

I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men {Like RC popes} but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**, **WHICH IS INDEED AT WORK IN YOU WHO BELIEVE**!!

2 Timothy 2:15: Do your best to present yourselves to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who **CORRECTLY HANDLES THE WORD ** of truth!

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC popes} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the ***PRESENT AGE*** but also in the one to come. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!


What does the 2 pages of verses you compiled and posted have to do with the thread title?

1/23/2018 5:52:51 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

rey2140
Over 1,000 Posts (1,110)
Sullivan, OH
48, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Even if what you say is true, how does that prohibit us from praying to the Son and to the Holy Spirit? Are not they co-equal? Are they not all three equally God?


We are to reverence God and God alone. Everything that Christ did on earth was to glorify the Father. We are to accept what Christ did, we are to follow the leadings of the Spirit, We are to Reverence the Father.

Lud, it's fine if you want to believe in a Trinity doctrine. I personally do not.

I pose another question... That is, do you or the Catholic Church feel that a Trinity doctrine is essential for salvation?

1/23/2018 8:42:34 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


To refuse to believe in EVEN ONE Catholic doctrine will result in the loss of the person's soul. Sometimes God does cut some slack if the person is, through no fault of his own, ignorant of the doctrine.

1/23/2018 9:44:00 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

rey2140
Over 1,000 Posts (1,110)
Sullivan, OH
48, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from ludlowlowell:
To refuse to believe in EVEN ONE Catholic doctrine will result in the loss of the person's soul. Sometimes God does cut some slack if the person is, through no fault of his own, ignorant of the doctrine.


Exactly that.... A Catholic doctrine as you yourself just stated. The result is a loss of soul according to Catholic doctrine and only Catholic doctrine that would excommunicate you.
Where in all the Scriptures the Catholics put together does it say that there would be a loss of soul if one does not believe in a Trinity????.... It doesn't!!! Where in all of Scripture does it say there would be a loss of Soul????? There is none... no way!! Does Scripture not say... That none may be lost??? I'm pretty sure it says that none be lost.
Again, it's an argument of men meant for discord, not harmony.

1/24/2018 7:56:21 AMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Why do doctrines have to be in scripture? Why can't they just be taught by the Church? According to 2 Thessalonians 2:15 many doctrines were not written down, they were only part of an oral tradition. The Trinity would fit into this category, as would most of our doctrines about Mary.

The if-its-not-in-scripture-I-don't-believe-it attitude is actually a heresy. It is a heresy invented by Martin Luther in the 1500s, 1500 years after Christ. This error is called "sola scriptura" (scripture only), a Latin phrase Luther coined himself. Until the 1500s no one had ever heard of this or thought like this.

Jesus founded a Church to spread His gospel, not a Bible. The Bible is merely a tool the Church put together to help the Church spread the message. Yes, the Bible is inspired by God but the only way we know this is that the Church says so. According to 1 Timothy 3:15 the Church, not the Bible, is the pillar and ground of truth.

1/24/2018 5:18:33 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


**THE FATHER AND THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ARE GOD BUT WHAT ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT OR SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD**??

Isaiah 7:14: The Lord Himself will give you a Sign. The **VIRGIN** will conceive and give birth to a Son, and He will be called **IMMANUEL**! {Which means **GOD WITH US**}

Matthew 1:21-23: She will give birth to a Son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins. All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet {Isaiah 7:14 above} The virgin will conceive and give birth to a Son and they will call Him **IMMANUEL** which means **GOD WITH US**!

Luke 2:9,10: An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them. The angel said, "I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David a **SAVIOR** has been born to you; He is the **MESSIAH**, the **LORD**!"

Isaiah 9:6,7: For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, **MIGHTY GOD** and **PRINCE OF PEACE**. Of the greatness of his government and Peace there will be **NO END**!

Titus 2:13 **WE** wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**---the glorious **APPEARING** of our great ***GOD** and **SAVIOR**, Jesus Christ!!

John 1:18: No one has ever seen God {The Father}, but the one and only Son, who is **HIMSELF GOD**!!

John 10:27-30: Jesus says, My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. **I GIVE THEM** eternal life! and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of My hand... I and the Father **ARE ONE**!!"

I Corinthians 8:6: For us there s but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but **ONE LORD** Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and **THROUGH WHOM WE LIVE**!

Romans 10:8,9: If you declare with your mouth, "**JESUS IS LORD**," and believe in your heart God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your **HEART** that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith {A **GIFT OF GOD as per Eph 2:8} and are saved!

Jude 4: They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our **ONLY** Sovereign and **LORD**!

God the Father is called **LORD** more than 3,000 times in the Scripture and Jesus, God the Son, is called **LORD** over 200 times in the NT!!

John 20:27-29: Jesus said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe!" Thomas said to Jesus, "My **LORD** and **MY GOD**!!" Then Jesus told him, Because you have seen Me, you have believed, blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed!!"

Hebrews 1:1-3,6,8: In the past God {The Father} spoke to our ancestor through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and **THROUGH WHOM** He made the universe. The Son is the **RADIANCE OF GOD'S GLORY** and the **EXACT** representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven... God said, "Let all God's angels worship Him!!" God said about His Son, "Your throne, **O GOD** will last for ever and ever!!"

Colossians 1:15-19: The Son is the image of the invisible God! For **IN HIM** all things were created; things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible.. **ALL THINGS** have been created through Him and for Him!!He is before all things and in Him all things hold together. And He is the **HEAD** of the body, the **CHURCH**{Not some pope}He is the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything He might have the **SUPREMACY**. For God was pleased to have **ALL HIS FULLNESS DWELL IN HIM**, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things on earth or things in heaven, by making **PEACE THROUGH HIS BLOOD**, shed on the cross!!

I Peter 1:18,19: For you know that was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were **REDEEMED** from the empty way of life handed down to you by your forefathers, but with the **PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST**, a **LAMB** without blemish or defect!!

I Peter 2:24,25: He Himself **BORE OUR SINS** in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness, **BY HIS WOUNDS WE ARE HEALED** {See Isaiah 53:5,6 below}!! For you were **LIKE SHEEP GOING ASTRAY**, but now you have returned to the **SHEPHERD** and **OVERSEER** of your souls!!

Romans 10:8,9: If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is **LORD**," and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Luke 3:16: John the Baptist said, "I baptize you with water. But One who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire!!"

John 1:33,34: John the Baptist said, "The One who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The Man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the One who will baptize with the Holy Spirit!' I have seen and I testify that this is God's Chosen One!"

Acts 10:44-47: While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles... They **HAVE** received the Holy Spirit just as we have!!"

Acts 11:15-17: Peter said, "As I began to speak the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said, "John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit!"

There will be only **TWO THRONES** in our eternal home: the New Jerusalem as per:

Revelation 22:3,4: The **THONE OF GOD** and of the **LAMB** will be in the City {The New Jerusalem} and His servants will serve Him.

Revelation 3:21: Jesus says, To him who overcomes I will give the right to sit with Me on **MY THRONE**, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on **HIS THRONE**!!"

The Holy Spirit is not mentioned in Revelation but is called the seven spirits of 4 times in Revelation 1:4; 3:1; 4:5 and 5:6"

Revelation 1:4: Grace and peace to you from Him who is, and who was, who is to come, and from the seven spirits **BEFORE HIS THRONE** and from Jesus Christ!

Revelation 3:1: Jesus says, These are the words of Him **WHO HOLDS** the seven spirits of God!"

Revelation 4:5: **From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. **IN FRONT OF THE THRONE** seven lamps were burning. These are the seven spirits of God!

Revelation 5:6:The **LAMB** had seven horns and 7 eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth!

1/24/2018 5:26:42 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


**THE FATHER AND THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ARE GOD BUT WHAT ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT OR SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD**??

John 16:12-15: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak **ONLY WHAT HE HEARS** and he will tell you what is yet to come. They {The 7 spirits of God} will glorify Me because it is **FROM ME** that they will receive what they will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit {Or 7 spirits of God} will receive **FROM ME** what they will make known to you! {Since the 7 spirits of God also called the Holy Spirit, will inspire all the writers and the inspired words of the New Testament and with their spirit Jesus will baptize all His new believers!}

Luke 3:16: John the Baptist said, "I baptize you with water, but One who is more powerful than I will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire!!"

It is interesting to note that the holy spirit or 7 spirits of God do not have their own throne, are never called God or Lord, and are never worshiped; and only do what the Lord Jesus tells them to do!

It is interesting to note that Jesus is **WORSHIPED 12 times in the New Testament and the **WORSHIP** of the holy spirit is not even **WORSHIPED** one time in God's Word!!

Revelation 5:12-14: In a loud voice the were saying: "Worthy is the **LAMB** who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!" Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To Him who sits on the throne and to the **LAMB** be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" The 4 living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and **WORSHIPED**!!{Notice that the holy spirit or 7 spirits of God are not worshiped or even mentioned!!}


Ephesians 1:22,23: He raised Christ from the dead and seated him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the **PRESENT AGE** but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under His feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD OVER EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH**, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to **ME** {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Revelation 17:14: They make war against the**LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them, because He is **LORD** of lords and **KING** of kings and with Him will be His **CALLED**, **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!!{Riding on heavenly white horses as per Revelation 19:7-20!}

1/24/2018 7:43:33 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

rey2140
Over 1,000 Posts (1,110)
Sullivan, OH
48, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Why do doctrines have to be in scripture? Why can't they just be taught by the Church? According to 2 Thessalonians 2:15 many doctrines were not written down, they were only part of an oral tradition. The Trinity would fit into this category, as would most of our doctrines about Mary.

The if-its-not-in-scripture-I-don't-believe-it attitude is actually a heresy. It is a heresy invented by Martin Luther in the 1500s, 1500 years after Christ. This error is called "sola scriptura" (scripture only), a Latin phrase Luther coined himself. Until the 1500s no one had ever heard of this or thought like this.

Jesus founded a Church to spread His gospel, not a Bible. The Bible is merely a tool the Church put together to help the Church spread the message. Yes, the Bible is inspired by God but the only way we know this is that the Church says so. According to 1 Timothy 3:15 the Church, not the Bible, is the pillar and ground of truth.


For one, in the very beginning there was no NT to follow as we have today. There was the Torah, the Prophets and Chronicles Etc. The traditions taught orally Lud, were not the traditions of gentiles, but the traditions of the Israelites. This is the major difference.
This point I am not sure about. But as Christianity started to grow, the Apostles wrote letters, Barnabas, Paul etc. ( now to what extent the Apostles wrote their attributing letters personally, I do not know) This gave way to oral traditions in written form because of the various beliefs that cropped up.
As more and more gentiles became Christian, the more and more pagan beliefs that came with them. Which brings me to your point of Trinity and most of your beliefs about Mary. They are not scriptural. Today, if it cannot be backed up by Scripture, it is not going to fly.
Oral traditions give way to those that would usurp power as Rome usurped power from the church to impose their will on the people.
As for Luther and heresy, it is only "heresy" to the Catholic. Why? Because Luther challenged the status quo of Papal Rome. Many of the doctrines the Catholic Church hold are not traditions of the early church, but doctrines of Roman government to usurp control.
One last point. The church spoken of in 1 Tim.3:15 is not the Catholic Church as you espouse. The Catholic Church is far from the words of Jesus. No amount of assertion on your part is going to change this.

1/24/2018 8:43:57 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Everything has to be in the Bible or it can't be believed, right?

Wrong.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 says we must believe everything the apostles taught, whether by epistle or by word of mouth.

1/24/2018 9:07:09 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


Ludlow quote:

Jesus gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. What do you suppose that means, Prophetic?
What do you think it means, Prophetic?


Matthew 16:19: Jesus said to Peter, "I will give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. The authority of the apostles and their chosen successors was basic to the survival of the early church. However, by AD 100 when the canon of Scripture along with the doctrinal foundation of the church had become firmly established, it was necessary to return to the Scriptures themselves as the primary source of authority.{This promise was given to the **APOSTLE** Peter and there was not even a hint that it was transferrable!!}

John 20:23: Jesus said to **ALL** His apostles, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent Me, I am sending you? And with that He breathed on them and said, "If you forgive Anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Matthew 18:18:: Jesus said to **ALL** his Apostles, "Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven!"

2 Corinthians 2:10: The Apostle Paul said to the Corinthian Church, "Anyone you forgive, I also forgive, and what I have forgiven--if there was anything to forgive--I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes

Peter was appointed to preach the sermon on the Day of Pentecost that saved 3,000 Jews into the Kingdom of Heaven and also to save the first Gentiles into the Kingdom of Heaven!

There was not one syllable pointing in this Scripture to the transmission of the power conferred on Peter to any successors. And many Scriptures show That Jesus was and is the **HEAD** of God's church both **ON EARTH** and in heaven!!

Colossians 1:15-19: The Son is the image of the invisible God! For **IN HIM** all things were created; things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible.. **ALL THINGS** have been created through Him and for Him!!He is before all things and in Him all things hold together. And He is the **HEAD** of the body, the **CHURCH**{Not some pope}He is the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything He might have the **SUPREMACY**. For God was pleased to have **ALL HIS FULLNESS DWELL IN HIM**, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things on earth or things in heaven, by making **PEACE THROUGH HIS BLOOD**, shed on the cross!!

Ephesians 1:22,23: He raised Christ from the dead and seated him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the **PRESENT AGE** but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under His feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD OVER EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH**, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to **ME** {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 4 :7:11-16: To each one of us grace has been given AS CHRIST APPORTIONED IT**... Christ Himself {Not the RC Church} gives some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists and some to be pastors and teachers to equip His people for works of service so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God! and become mature attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ..... speaking the truth in love we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of Him who is the ***HEAD***{Not some pope}, that is, **CHRIST**. **FROM HIM** the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work!!

1/24/2018 10:36:03 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


More of Ludlow's quotes which are total **LIES**!!

"Read the geneology of Jesus in Matthew then read it in Luke. Total contradiction."

"In one passage in the Old Testament it says Jesse had seven sons and in another eight. Total contradiction."

I Samuel 16:11,12: Jesse had seven sons **PASS BEFORE SAMUEL**. BUT Samuel said to him, "The Lord has not chosen these." so he asked Jesse, "Are these all you have?" "There is still the youngest," Jesse answered. He {The 8th son!!} is tending the sheep!!"

I Samuel 17:12: Now David was the son of Jesse, who was from Bethlehem in Judah Jesse had **8 SONS**!! {And so there was no **TOTAL CONTRADICTION**!!}

The genealogy in Matthew 1 was Joseph's genealogy and the genealogy in Luke 3 was Mary's genealogy!! {And so again there was no **TOTAL CONTRADICTION**!!}




**THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES THAT THE BIBLE MUST BE INTERPRETED FOR YOU BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH WHICH CAN ADD DOCTRINES TO GOD'S WORD**???

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

119:97: Oh how I love your law, I meditate on it all day long.
119:148: My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I meditate on your promises.

Acts 17:11: Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and EXAMINED the SCRIPTURES *EVERY DAY*!!

**DOES GOD'S WORD SAY THAT *ADDING** OR **TAKING WORDS** AWAY FROM GOD'S WORD IS AN UNPARDONABLE SIN**??

Deuteronomy 4:2: The Lord said, "Do not **ADD** to what I command you and do not **SUBTRACT** from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you!!"

Deuteronomy 12:32: The Lord said, "See that you do all I command you, do not **ADD** to it or **TAKE AWAY** from it!!"

Proverbs 30:5,6: Every Word of God is **FLAWLESS**, He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him! Do not **ADD* to His Words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a **LIAR**!!

Deuteronomy 18:17-19: The Lord said to Moses, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among your fellow Israelites, and I will put My words in His mouth. He will tell them **EVERYTHING** I command Him. I Myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to My words that the Prophet speaks in My name!!"

John 14:21-24: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and keeps them is the one who loves Me... Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching, My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them.. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching. These words you hear are not My own; they belong to the Father who sent Me!" {See Deut 18:17-19 above}

I Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.

Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"

I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's love is truly made complete in him!

Matthew 4:4: Jesus says, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on **EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!"

Luke 8:15: Jesus says, "But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the **WORD**, retain it, and by perseverance produce a crop."

John 17:17: Jesus prays to His Father, "Sanctify them by the Truth, **YOUR WORD IS TRUTH**!"

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC popes} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to **ME** {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the ***PRESENT AGE*** but also in the one to come. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

1/25/2018 1:39:12 AMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


The pope answers to Jesus because the pope is the vicar of Christ on earth. If the pope does a bad job he will pay for it in Hell or Purgatory.

1/25/2018 6:35:52 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


More ridiculous quotes by Ludlow and the Satanic Roman Catholic Church that claim there are countless **TOTAL CONTRADICTIONS** in God's Word:

"Read the geneology of Jesus in Matthew then read it in Luke. Total contradiction."

"The synoptic gospels say Jesus died at noon but John says 3 p.m. Total contradiction."

"When Paul describes his conversion in one of his epistles the account is much different than the account Luke wrote in Acts---and Paul and Luke were pals! Another contradiction."


Actually Matthew, Mark and Luke all agree that Jesus died at the **9TH HOUR** hour after sundown which is about **3 PM** while John does not state any time when Jesus died at all!!

And so Ludlow has made 4 absolute **LIES** by saying Matthew, Mark and Luke claimed Jesus died about noon {The 6th hour} and that John stated Jesus died around 3 PM {The 9th hour}since John did not mention any time period at all!!!

Matthew 27:45-50, Mark 15:33-37 and Luke 23:44-46 all agree that Jesus died about the 8th hour which is about 3PM!!

Luke 23:44-46: It was about the 6th hour {About Noon}, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour{About 3PM}, for the sun stopped shining. and the curtain of the Temple was torn in two. Then Jesus called out in a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit My Spirit."

Matthew 27:45-50: From the 6th hour until the ninth hour darkness came over the land About the 9th hour {About 3 PM} Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?".... And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He gave up His Spirit!

The Crucifixion of Jesus is also quoted in John 20:17-30 and **NO TIME PERIOD** is mentioned or hinted or even implied!!!

Matthew 1:1-16 Records the genealogy from Abraham to **JOSEPH** the husband of Mary and then to Jesus and also includes David and Judah since Jesus was called The "Son of David" 17 times in the NT and also called the "Lion of the tribe of Judah!"

Matthew 1:1,2,16: A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the Son of David, the son of Abraham: Abraham was the father of Isaac.... And Jacob the father of **JOSEPH**, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ!

The genealogy of Mary in Luke 3:23-37 lists 77 generations all the way from Jesus to Adam and also includes Abraham, David and Judah which is very important since God's sacred inspired Word states that Jesus was the "Son of David" 17 times and "Lion of the tribe of Judah {Rev 5:5}and all Jews must have a mother that is related to Abraham!!

Another ridiculous lie by Ludlow:

"When Paul describes his conversion in one of his epistles the account is much different than the account Luke wrote in Acts---and Paul and Luke were pals! Another contradiction.

Paul gave 2 accounts of his conversion in his epistles in Romans 15:15-18 and Galatians 1:11-16!!

Romans 15:15-18: I have written you quite boldly on some points to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ **TO THE GENTILES** He gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the Gospel of God, so that the **GENTILES** might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the **GENTILES** to obey God!!

Galatians 1:11-16: I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the Gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, rather, I received it by a revelation from Jesus Christ. For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. But, when God, who set me apart from my mother's womb and **CALLED ME** **BY HIS GRACE**, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might **PREACH HIM AMONG THE **GENTILES**!

Acts 9:3:6: As he {SAUL or PAUL} neared Damascus o his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a Voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?" "Who are you **LORD**, Saul asked. "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting," He relied. "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do!" Acts 26:15-18 **ADDS** Jesus said, "Now stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of Me. I will rescue you from your own people and from the **GENTILES**. I am sending you to **THEM** to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive **FORGIVENESS OF SINS** and a place among those who are **SANCTIFIED BY FAITH IN ME!!"

An so there was **NO CONTRADICTION** between Paul's conversion in Acts and Paul's account of his conversion in his epistles as shown above. And the Roman Catholics are furious that Paul was not saved by Good works and preached that we receive **FORGIVNESS OF SINS** by **GOD'S GRACE** by **FAITH IN JESUS** which is a **GIFT OF GOD** not by works so that no one can boast as per Ephesians 2:8!!

1/25/2018 8:16:04 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

rey2140
Over 1,000 Posts (1,110)
Sullivan, OH
48, joined Sep. 2013


Quote from ludlowlowell:
Everything has to be in the Bible or it can't be believed, right?

Wrong.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 says we must believe everything the apostles taught, whether by epistle or by word of mouth.


Exactly, the Apostles, who were Jewish. Not Gentile.

The oral teachings are not oral teachings of gentiles, your Catholic Church and yourself are so fond of... But of the Jewish tradition that Christianity arose from.

2nd Thes.2:15 so then brethren,stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us... Us being the Jewish Apostles appointed by Jesus, who knew the laws of torah, not what you assert your catholic church to be, who were Gentile and created laws against converting to Judaic customs

1/25/2018 8:46:09 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Thank you, Rey, for showing us that not everything got written down in the Bible. See also John 21:25.

1/26/2018 5:11:27 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


Ludlow quote:

"Prophetic, did you know that at Mass when the priest pronounces the words "This is my body" that the bread actually turns into the literal Body of Christ, and when he says "This is my blood" that the wine actually turns into the literal Blood of Christ?"

Quote from Roman Catholic Archbishop Michael J. Sheehen:

"Recently, a Gallup poll was taken on Catholic attitudes toward Holy Communion. The poll showed serious confusion among Catholics about one of the most basic beliefs of the Church. **ONLY 30 PERCENT** of those surveyed believe they are actually receiving the Body and Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ under the appearance of bread and wine."

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

I Corinthians 11:23-26: Paul said, For what I received from the Lord I passed onto you. The Lord Jesus, on the night He was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you, do this in **REMEMBRANCE OF ME**! In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, "This cup is the New Covenant in My blood, do this, whenever you drink it, in **REMEMBRANCE OF ME**!" For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you **PROCLAIM** the Lord's death until He comes!

Luke 22:19: Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to His Apostles, saying, "This is My body given for you, do this in **REMEMBRANCE OF ME**!"

John 14:26: Jesus said to His disciples, "The Holy spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will **REMIND YOU** of everything I have said to you!"

About 14 years later, about AD 47, before any of the New Testament was written; the disciples decided to give 4 rules for the new Gentile converts in Acts 15;20 and Acts 15:28,29 and Paul confirmed these 4 rules a few years later in Acts 21:25:

Acts 15:20 The disciples decided that we should write to the Gentiles telling them to **ABSTAIN** from: food polluted by Idols, from sexual morality, from the meat of strangled animals and **FROM BLOOD**!

Acts 15:28,29: The disciples said to the Gentiles, "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you beyond the following requirements: You are to **ABSTAIN** from food sacrificed to idols, **FROM BLOOD**, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to **AVOID** these things!"

Acts 21:25: Paul said, "As for the Gentile believers, we have written them our decision that they should **ABSTAIN** from food sacrificed to idols, **FROM BLOOD**. from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality!"

Leviticus 3:17: The Lord says, "This is a **LASTING** ordinance for generations to come, wherever you live: You must not eat any fat or **ANY BLOOD**!!"

Deuteronomy 12:23: The Lord says, "Be sure that you do not eat the **BLOOD**, because the blood is the life. You must not eat the **BLOOD**, pour it out on the ground like water. Do not eat it, so that it may go well with you and your children after you, because you will be doing right in the eyes of the Lord!!"


**CHRIST WAS SACRIFICED **ONCE** TO TAKE AWAY THE SINS OF MANY PEOPLE** HEBREWS 9:28**

Hebrews 9:12: He entered the Most Holy Place **ONCE FOR ALL** by **HIS OWN BLOOD**, having obtained **ETERNAL REDEMPTION**!

Hebrews 9:22; 26-28: The law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood **THERE IS NO FORGIVENESS**.... But now He has appeared **ONCE FOR ALL** at the end of the ages to do away with sin **BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF**!! Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, and **CHRIST WAS SACRIFICED **ONCE** TO TAKE AWAY THE SINS OF MANY PEOPLE**, and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him!

Hebrews 10:8-10: First He said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor were You pleased with them," although the law required them to be made. Then He said, "Here I am, I have come to do Your will." He sets aside the first **TO ESTABLISH THE SECOND**. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ **ONCE FOR ALL**!!

Romans 3:21-25: But now a righteousness from God, **APART FROM THE LAW**, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes **THROUGH FAITH** in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by **HIS GRACE** through the **REDEMPTION** that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Him as a **SACRIFICE OF ATONEMENT**, **THROUGH **FAITH** IN HIS BLOOD**!!

Colossians 1:19-20: He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things **ON EARTH** or things in heaven, by making peace **THROUGH HIS BLOOD**, **SHED ON THE CROSS**!!

Colossians 2:13-15: When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you **ALIVE WITH CHRIST**. He forgave us **ALL OUR SINS**, having canceled the written code, with its regulation, that was against us and that stood opposed to us, He took it away, **NAIILNG IT TO THE CROSS**!!.

Ephesians 1:7-8: In Him we have **REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD**, **THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS**, in accordance the riches of **GOD'S GRACE** that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding!!

I Peter 1:18,19: For you know that was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were **REDEEMED** from the empty way of life handed down to you by your forefathers, but with the **PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST**, Lamb without blemish or defect!!

I Peter 2:24,25: He Himself **BORE OUR SINS** in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness, by **HIS WOUNDS** we are healed{See Isaiah 53:5,6}!! For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls!!

I Peter 3:18 For Christ **DIED FOR SINS **ONCE FOR ALL**, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God!!

I John 4:10: This is **LOVE**, not that we loved God, but that He **LOVED** us and sent His Son as an **ATONING SACRIFICE** for our sins.

Isaiah 53:5,6: But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and **BY HIS WOUNDS WE ARE HEALED**! We all, like sheep, have gone astray , each of us has turned to his own way, and **THE LORD HAS LAID ON HIM THE INIQUITY OF US ALL**!!

Romans 5:6-10: You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless. Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates His love for us in this: While we were still sinners **CHRIST DIED FOR US**. Since we are now justified **BY HIS BLOOD**, how much more will we be saved from God's wrath through Him! When we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to Him **THROUGH THE DEATH OF HIS SON**!!

1/26/2018 8:35:51 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


**IS **REJOICING** PART OF THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST**??

Matthew 5:12: Jesus says, Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. **REJOICE** and be glad, because great is your **REWARD** in heaven!!"

Luke 6:22,23: Jesus says, "Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. **REJOICE** in that day and **LEAP FOR JOY** because great is your **REWARD** in heaven!!"

Luke 1:47: My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit **REJOICES** in God my Savior.

Luke 10:20: Jesus says, "**REJOICE** that your names are written in heaven!"

John 16:22: Jesus says, "I will see you again and you will **REJOICE**, and no one will take away **YOUR JOY**!!"

Acts 2:25,26: David said about Jesus, "I saw the Lord always before me, because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken. Therfore my heart is glad and my tongue **REJOICES**.... You will fill me with **JOY** in Your presence!!"

Romans 5:1-4: Since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we **REJOICE** in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also **REJOICE** in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope.

Romans 12:15: **REJOICE** with those who **REJOICE**!!

2 Corinthians 6:10: We are sorrowful yet **ALWAYS REJOICING**; poor yet making many rich; having nothing , and yet **POSSESSING EVERYTHING**!

I Corinthians 13:6 Love does not delight in evil but **REJOICES** with the truth!

Philippians 4:4: **REJOICE** in the Lord **ALWAYS**. I will say it again: **REJOICE**!!

I Peter 1:4-6: This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time! In this you greatly **REJOICE**!

Revelation 19:6,7: Hallelujah! For our Lord God almighty reigns. Let us **REJOICE** and be glad and give Him glory! For the wedding of the **LAMB** has come, and the bride has made herself ready!!

**IS **REJOICING** AND **JOY** PART OF THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST**??

Colossians 1:12,13: We give **JOYFUL THANKS** to the Father who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of His holy people in the Kingdom of Light. For He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the Kingdom of the Son He loves, in whom we have redemption and forgiveness of sins!!

John 15:10,11: Jesus says, "If you keep My commands, you will remain in My love... I have told you this so that **MY JOY** may be in **YOU** and that your **JOY** may be complete!!"

John 17:24: Jesus says, "Until now you have not asked for anything in My name. Ask and you will receive {If it is God's will}, and your **JOY** will be complete!!"

Romans 14:17,18: For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and **JOY** in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God!!

Romans 15:13: My the God of hope fill you with **ALL JOY** and peace as you trust in Him, so that you my overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit!!

Galatians 5:22 The fruit of the Spirit is love and **JOY**!!

I Thessalonians 1:6: You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the **JOY** given by the Holy Spirit!!

I Thessalonians 5:16: **REJOICE ALWAYS**, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances, for this is **GOD'S WILL** for you in Christ Jesus!!

I Peter 1:7-9: This will result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and even though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him and are filled with an **INEXPRESSIBLE AND GLORIOUS **JOY**, for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls!!

Jude 24,25: To Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with **GREAT JOY**--to the only God and Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore!! Amen!

1/27/2018 12:30:29 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


NOW THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE CHURCH OF CHRIST AND EQUALIZER21 BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE SAVED BY GOOD WORKS, AND THAT GOD'S CHOSEN SAINTS CAN LOOSE THEIR SALVATION??

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

"John 15:16: You did not choose Me but **I CHOSE YOU** and **APPOINTED YOU** so that you might go and bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!!"

Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by **GRACE** you have been saved, through **FAITH**—and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do **GOOD WORKS**, which God prepared in advance for us to do! {And so all of God's chosen saints will do **GOOD WORKS** for they are God's **WORKMANSHIP**!}

Romans 4:5-8: To the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness! David says {In Psalm 32:1} the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God's credits righteousness **APART FROM WORKS**: "Blessed are those whose transgressions are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will **NEVER** count against them!"

Romans 11:5,6: At the present time their is a remnant **CHOSEN BY GRACE**. And if by grace, then **IT CANNOT BE BASED ON WORKS**; if it were grace would no longer by grace!

Romans 9:11-18: Before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose **BY ELECTION** might stand; **NOT BY WORKS** but by Him who calls.... Is God unjust? Not at all. For He says to Moses "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy... Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden!

Matthew 13:20-23: Jesus says, "The seed falling on the rocky ground refers to someone who hears the Word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the Word they quickly fall away. The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the Word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the Word, making it unfruitful. {These seeds were not sown and **CHOSEN** by God!} But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the **WORD AND UNDERSTANDS IT**. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."

Galatians 5:22,23: The **FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT** {**A FREE GIFT OF GOD**} is love, joy, peace, forgiveness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control!

2 Peter 1:3-11: His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness. Through these He has given us very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption of the world caused by evil desires. For this reason, make every effort to add to your faith {A Free Gift of **GOD**} goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, **LOVE**. For if you possess these qualities in **INCREASING MEASURE**, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsightecd and blind, forgetting that they have been forgiven of their past sins... Therefore, my brothers make **EVERY EFFORT** to confirm your calling and **ELECTION**. For if you do these things, you will never fail, and you will receive a **RICH WELCOME** into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Corinthians 3:7-9: So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who makes things grow. The man who plants and the man who watered have one purpose, and each will be **REWARDED** according to his own labor. For we are God's fellow workers, you are God's field, God's building!

Ephesians 6:8: Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will **REWARD** everyone for what ever good he does!

Revelation 22:12 Jesus says, “Behold I am coming soon! My **REWARD** is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!”

John 6:37,39,65: Jesus says, "All those the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away....And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all those He has given Me, but raise them up on the Last Day... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!"

Romans 6:23: The wages of sin is death, but the **GIFT OF GOD** is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior!!

Romans 12:3: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the **FAITH** God has distributed to each of you!!

Ephesians 1:4-8: **IN LOVE HE PREDESTINED US** for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has **FREELY** given us in the One He loves. In Him we have **REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD**, the **FORGIVENESS OF SINS**, in accordance with the riches of **GOD'S GRACE** that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding!!

Romans 8:28-30: We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been **CALLED** according to His purpose. For those God foreknew He also **PREDESTINED** to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those He **PREDESTINED**, He also **CALLED**; those He **CALLED**, He also **JUSTIFIED**; those He **JUSTIFIED** He also **GLORIFIED**!!

Romans 8:33-37: Who will bring any charge against those whom God has **CHOSEN**? It is God who justifies... Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?... For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels or demons, neither the present or the future nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord1

**AND SO SALVATION IS 100 PERCENT **FREE** AND REWARDS ARE 100 PERCENT EARNED**!!

Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LANB** but the **LAMB** will triumph over them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and with Him will be His **CALLED** **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers! {Riding on Heavenly white horses as per Revelation 19:7-20!}

1/27/2018 1:20:13 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


We cannot be saved by works alone but the Bible is very clear, in numerous places, that faith that does not bear fruit as good works is dead.

1/27/2018 7:23:32 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


**MORE RIDICULOUS QUOTES BY LUDLOW:

"Prophetic, will you google "Inconsistencies in the Bible" for me and see what it says? One gentleman on there found 700 inconsistencies in the Bible. 700! How can you put your faith in a book like that?"{?????}


**HOWEVER** "**ALL SCRIPURE IS GOD-BREATHED**" "**WE ARE BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING ANE ENDURING WORD OF GOD**" **JESUS SAYS,"** MAN SHALL LIVE BY EVERY WORD THAT COMES FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!!" {**2 Timothy 3:15 I Peter 1:23 Matthew 4:4**}

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

I Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.

Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"

I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's love is truly made complete in him!

Matthew 4:4: Jesus says, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on **EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!"

Luke 8:15: Jesus says, "But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the **WORD**, retain it, and by perseverance produce a crop."

John 17:17: Jesus prays to His Father, "Sanctify them by the Truth, **YOUR WORD IS TRUTH**!"

Acts 20:32: Paul says, "Now I commit you to God and to the **WORD OF HIS GRACE**, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified!"

Romans 10:17: Consequently, **FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE**, and the message is heard **THROUGH THE WORD OF CHRIST**!

James 1:18; He chose to give us **BIRTH THROUGH THE WORD** of Truth!!

I Corinthians 15:2: By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the **WORD** preached to you. Otherwise you have believed in vain!

2 Corinthians 4:2: We do not use deception, nor do we distort the **WORD OF GOD**!

Ephesians 1:`13: You also were included in Christ **WHEN** you heard the **WORD** of Truth, the gospel of your salvation.

Ephesians 2:17: Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the **WORD OF GOD**!

Colossians 1:25: I have become its servant by the commission God gave to me to present to you the **WORD OF GOD IN ALL ITS FULLNESS**!

Colossians 3:16: Let the **WORD OF CHRIST** dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom!

I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men {Like RC popes}, but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**!

2 Timothy 2:15: Do your best to present yourselves to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who **CORRECTLY HANDLES THE WORD ** of truth!

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC church} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the ***PRESENT AGE***. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

1/28/2018 1:21:12 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


The Roman Catholic Church and the Church of Christ and Equalizer21 believe in H2O or water baptismal regeneration which means you are saved the moment some one baptizes you with water. The Church of Christ also believes that the preacher who baptizes you with water is the one who saves you. The Roman Catholic Church and the Church of Christ and Equalizer21 also teach you are saved by faith **PLUS GOOD WORKS** which always includes water baptism.

**WHAT IS CHRISTIAN BAPTISM**???

Christian baptism is a voluntary ceremony whereby a person publically declares he or she has come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ. Christian baptism is performed by dipping the believer under water and lifting him or her up again, symbolically representing the believer's acceptance of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection for their sins. Paul explained this in Romans 6:3-4: "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." Baptism doesn't save; it isn't required for salvation, such as the thief on the cross or a believer who is baptized by the Holy Spirit who dies before he baptized by water.

Romans 10:9-10: If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is **WITH YOUR HEART** that you believe and are justified, and it is **WITH YOUR MOUTH** that you believe and are saved! {NOTE: Water Baptism is not mentioned!}

The biblical requirements for baptism are simple: have a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, and understand what baptism means. The Bible adds no requirements for age, the length of time someone has been a believer (Acts 8:34-38), or informational classes—as long as the person understands what baptism means. Baptism can be performed in a church's baptismal, a swimming pool, or the ocean. And the participants can wear robes, waders, jeans, or swimsuits. The only requirements are that the person being baptized is a Christian and is willing to obey God by publically declaring their relationship with Him.

Probably about 1,000,000,000 Roman Catholics who have ben baptized with water are lost unless they repent and change their Satanic beliefs. And probably about half of the Protestant believers who are baptized including the Church of Christ believers are lost unless they are baptized later by the Holy Spirit.

Another ridiculous quote by Equalizer21:

"Because no matter how you look at baptism in the spirit, it wasn't given until water baptism was accomplished."

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

Acts 10:44-47: While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles... Then Peter said, "Surely no can stand in the way of their being baptized by water. They **HAVE** received the Holy Spirit just as we have!!"

Acts 11:15-17: Peter said, "As I began to speak the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said, "John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit!"

Acts 1:5: Jesus said to His disciples, "John baptized with water but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit!"

Luke 3:16: John the Baptist said, "I baptize you with water. But One who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire!!"

John 1:33,34: John the Baptist said, "The One who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The Man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the One who will baptize with the Holy Spirit!' I have seen and I testify that this is God's Chosen One!"

I Corinthians 1:17: Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel!!

Titus 3:3,4: At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and **LOVE** of God our Savior appeared , He saved us, **NOT BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUS THINGS WE HAD DONE**, but because of **HIS MERCY**!!

John 1:12,13: To all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, he gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, **NOR OF A HUMAN DECISION** or a husband's will but, **BORN OF GOD**!!

John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "**ALL** that the Father gives Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me **DRAWS HIM**, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!!"

Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by **GRACE** you have been saved, through **FAITH**—and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do **GOOD WORKS**, which God prepared in advance for us to do! {And so God's **CHOSEN** saints who receive the **FREE GIFT OF FAITH** will all do **GOOD WORKS** because the are ** GOD'S WORKMANSHP**

Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, "The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will **REWARD** each person according to what he has done!"

**AND SO SALVATION IS 100 PERCENT FREE AND ETERNAL **REWARDS** ARE 100 PERCENT EARNED**!!

Revelation 17:14: The will make war against the **LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and King of kings and with Him will be His **CALLED**, **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!!{Riding on heavenly white horses as per Revelation 19:7-20!!}

1/28/2018 6:12:02 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


**THE VERY GOOD AND VERY BAD OF MARTIN LUTHER**

Committed to the idea that salvation could be reached through faith and by divine grace only, Luther vigorously objected to the corrupt practice of selling indulgences. Acting on this belief, he wrote the “Disputation on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences,” also known as “The 95 Theses,” a list of questions and propositions for debate. Popular legend has it that on October 31, 1517 Luther defiantly nailed a copy of his 95 Theses to the door of the Wittenberg Castle church. The reality was probably not so dramatic; Luther more likely hung the document on the door of the church matter-of-factly to announce the ensuing academic discussion around it that he was organizing.

The 95 Theses, were written in a remarkably humble and academic tone, questioning rather than accusing. The overall thrust of the document was nonetheless quite provocative. The first two of the theses contained Luther’s central idea, that God intended believers to seek repentance and that faith alone, and not deeds, would lead to salvation. The other 93 theses, a number of them directly criticizing the practice of indulgences, supported these first two.

In addition to his criticisms of indulgences, Luther also reflected popular sentiment about the “St. Peter’s scandal” since Pope Leo X had only become ridiculously wealthy **AFTER** he became pope.

Luther wrote: "Why does not the pope Leo X, whose wealth today is greater than the wealth of the richest, build the basilica of St. Peter with his own money rather than with the money of poor believers?"

On November 9, 1518 the pope condemned Luther’s writings as conflicting with the teachings of the Church. One year later a series of commissions were convened to examine Luther’s teachings. The first papal commission found them to be heretical, but the second merely stated that Luther’s writings were “scandalous and offensive to pious ears.” Finally, in July 1520 Pope Leo X issued a papal bull (public decree) that concluded that Luther’s propositions were heretical and gave Luther 120 days to recant in Rome. Luther refused to recant, and on January 3, 1521 Pope Leo excommunicated Martin Luther from the Catholic Church.

Luther had previously written against the Church’s adherence to clerical celibacy, and in 1525 he married Katherine of Bora, a former nun. They had five children. At the end of his life, Luther turned strident in his views, advocated for the expulsion of Jews from the empire and condoned polygamy based on the practice of the patriarchs in the Old Testament.

Martin Luther is one of the most influential figures in Western history. His writings were responsible for fractionalizing the Catholic Church and sparking the Protestant Reformation. His central teachings, that the Bible is the central source of religious authority and that salvation is reached through faith and not deeds, shaped the core of Protestantism. Although Luther was critical of the Catholic Church, he distanced himself from the radical successors who took up his mantle. Luther is remembered as a controversial figure, not only because his writings led to significant religious reform and division, but also because in later life he took on radical positions on other questions, including his pronouncements against Jews, which some have said may have portended to Nazi German anti-Semitism. Some of Luther’s most significant contributions to theological history, however, such as his insistence that as the sole source of religious authority the Bible be translated and made available to everyone, were truly revolutionary in his day.

Luther however still did not give up many of his Satanic Roman catholic beliefs, such as drinking the blood of Jesus, which were quite different from the true believers of his day such as as the Waldenses, the Albigenses, the Huguenots, the Anabaptists, the Mennonites and the Amish who were all pacifists and were also persecuted by the Lutherans because that refused to participate in the many wars between the Roman Catholics and Lutherans. Luther also did not understand the relationship of good works and faith and prophecy and sinfully taught that the books of James and Revelation were not God's inspired words.

John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "**ALL** that the Father gives Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me **DRAWS HIM**, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!!"

Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by **GRACE** you have been saved, through **FAITH**—and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do **GOOD WORKS**, which God prepared in advance for us to do! {And so God's **CHOSEN** saints who receive the **FREE GIFT OF FAITH** will all do **GOOD WORKS** because the are ** GOD'S WORKMANSHP**

Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, "The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will **REWARD** each person according to what he has done!"

**AND SO SALVATION IS 100 PERCENT FREE AND ETERNAL **REWARDS** FOR GOD'S CHOSEN SAINTS ARE 100 PERCENT EARNED**!!

Revelation 17:14: The will make war against the **LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and King of kings and with Him will be His **CALLED**, **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!!{Riding on heavenly white horses as per Revelation 19:7-20!!}

1/28/2018 8:33:59 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


"Like all heretics, Luther appeals to scripture to support his position. But like all heretics, when scripture doesn't agree with him, he rejects scripture."

--Father Johan vonEck, a priest who debated Martin Luther

1/29/2018 9:59:21 AMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


**THE HORRIFIC SATANIC ROMAN CATHOLIC CRUSADES AND INQUISTIONS**:


"High ideals were besmirched by cruelty and greed ... the Holy Wars and Crusades were nothing more than a long act of persecution and murder of anyone who was not Roman Catholic in the name of God".

Most Crusade scholars expressed moral outrage at the conduct of the Crusaders who were professional killers in the name of God; and who had the promises of eternal life, indulgences and penance for the forgiveness of sins promised by many evil satanic popes.

There were 9 Roman Catholic Crusades for the holy city of Jerusalem from AD 1095 to AD 1291. On their way to and from Jerusalem the Roman Catholic Crusaders killed over 4,000,000 Christians, 1,000,000 Jews and about 6,000,000 Muslims.

From AD 1209 to AD 1234 Roman Catholic Crusaders killed over 70,000 Albigenses, men women and children; who were pacifists and who believed that killing was a terrible sin. The Crusaders would murder everyone in many towns even though some were Roman Catholics since they believed that if you lived in a Albigenses' town you were also sinning. From AD 1235 to AD 1350 Roman Catholic Inquisitions with professional killers, who were promised eternal life by many popes; tortured and burned at the stake over 30,000 Albigrnses and then were handsomely paid by seizing their properties and assets.

Countless Roman Catholic Inquisitions by Roman Catholic popes from AD 1235 to AD 1953 when 60,00 Christians were killed in Bolivia; have killed over 35,000,000 {35 Million} Christians and Jews.

It is vital, though, that we here define what is meant by the term "heretic". According to Webster's II New Riverside University Dictionary, this is a heretic: "One who holds or advocates controversial opinions, esp. one who publicly opposes the officially accepted dogma of the Roman Catholic, Church." Or, as one author has put it, "Heresy, to a Catholic, is anti-Catholic truth found in the Bible. Another summarized the official stance as this: "Every citizen in the empire was required to be a Roman Catholic. Failure to give wholehearted allegiance to the pope was considered treason against the state punishable by death."

From 1235 the long series of Papal ordinances on the Inquisition, ever increasing in severity and cruelty, and their whole policy towards heresy, runs on without a break. It is a rigidly consistent system of legislation: every Pope confirms and improves upon the devices of his predecessor. All is directed to the one end, of completely uprooting every difference of belief... The Inquisition ... contradicted the simplest principles of Christian justice and love to our neighbor, and would have been rejected with universal horror in the ancient Church.

The Inquisition was purely and uniquely a Catholic institution; it was founded far the express purpose of exterminating every human being in Europe who differed from Roman Catholic beliefs and practices.

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

Luke 6:27-29: Jesus commands, "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you. do not demand it back!"

Romans 12:18-21: If it is possible, as far as it DEPENDS ON YOU, LIVE AT PEACE WITH EVERYONE! Do not take revenge my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written, "It is mine to revenge, I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary "If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head" Do not be overcome by evil but OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD!!

2 Corinthians 10:3,4: "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are *NOT* the weapons of the world."

The only weapons that NT saints may use who follow the New Covenant commands of Jesus is the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God. A NT saint would not even think of joining the army of any nation and becoming a professional killer or defending himself with a gun. Unfortunately very few Groups such as the Amish and Mennonites still obey these sacred commands of Jesus.

I John 2:3-5: "We know that we have come to know Him if we obey His {Jesus'} commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what He {Jesus} commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys His Word, God's love is truly made complete in him."

1/29/2018 12:32:12 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


**THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES THAT THE BIBLE IS A DEAD LETTER WHICH NEEDS TO INTERPRETED FOR YOU**

**ROMAN CATHOLIC QUOTES:

""The very nature of the Bible ought to prove to any thinking man the impossibility of its being the one safe method to find out what the Savior taught." (Ibid., p. 67)

"The Scriptures indeed is a divine book but it is a **DEAD LETTER**, which has to be explained." (Our Priesthood, p. 155)

"The simple fact is that the Bible, like all **DEAD LETTERS**, calls for a living interpreter." (The Faith of Millions, p. 155)

"The Bible was not intended to be a textbook of Christian religion." (Catholic Facts, p. 50)

"The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as Supreme Pastor and teacher of all the faithful--who confirms his brethren in the faith--he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals.... The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, ‘they exercise the supreme Magisterium,’ above all in an Ecumenical Council. When the Church through its supreme Magistrium proposes a doctrine ‘for belief as being divinely revealed,’ and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions ‘must be adhered to with the obedience of faith.’ This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine revelation itself." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #891, 1994 edition)

“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.” (Pope Pius V}

LUDLOW QUOTES:

Prophetic says, "In general Christians insist that any major doctrine be backed up by scripture."

WRONG!!!! WRONG!!!! REAL WRONG!!! VERY, VERY WRONG!!! A VERY, VERY HERETICAL NOTION!!!

The idea that every doctrine must be found in scripture... This false notion is contradicted by 2 Thessalonians 2:15, where Paul instructs the early Christians that they must adhere to all doctrines, whether written down in epistles or passed on in the Church by word of mouth.????

Why do Catholics believe in the immaculate conception of Mary, or the sinlessness of Mary, or the perpetual virginity of Mary, or the assumption of Mary body and soul into Heaven? True, none of these doctrines are explicitly stated in scripture---in the epistles---but they were passed down in the Church by word of mouth, so belief in them is **REQUIRED FOR SALVATION**????.


**BUT WHAT DOES 2 THESSALONIANS 2:15 REALLY SAY**??

2 Thessalonians 2:15: Paul said, "Stand firm and hold fast to the teachings passed on to you, whether by **WORD OF MOUTH** or by **LETTER**."

Now Paul only wrote 2 inspired letters to the Thessalonians but he also wrote 12 other inspired letters with many different doctrines to other churches!! Now the Roman Catholic Church teaches that what Paul taught by **WORD OF MOUTH** to the Thessalonians had many other doctrines not found in other Scriptures and only the Roman Catholic Church knows what these unknown doctrines are??? For example: That Mary was the only human person in Bible history that was **SINLESS** that they declared as the **WORDS OF GOD** on December 8th, 1854 {???} which is contradicted by many Scriptures in the inspired **WORDS OF GOD**!!!

Pope Pius IX declared the Immaculate Conception of Mary an article of faith on this day, December 8, 1854. According to his pronouncement in Ineffabilis Deus, Mary was given grace to be sinless??? Making Mary the only human person in Bible history to be sinless???

In general Christians insist that any major doctrine must be clearly backed up by some Scripture. Yet, as the Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture."

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S INSPIRED WORD SAY**??

Isaiah 53:6: We **ALL** like sheep, have gone astray, **EACH OF US** has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of **US ALL**!

Romans 3:22-24: There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for **ALL** have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and **ALL** are justified freely by His grace through he redemption that came by Christ Jesus!

Romans 5:12: Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin and this way **DEATH CAME TO ALL PEOPLE**, because **ALL HAVE SINNED**!!

I John 1:8,10: If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.... If we claim we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and **HIS TRUTH IS NOT IN US**!!

**THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES THAT THE BIBLE MUST BE INTERPRETED FOR YOU BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH**

**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??

119:97: Oh how I love your law, I meditate on it all day long.
119:148: My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I meditate on your promises.

Acts 17:11: Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and EXAMINED the SCRIPTURES *EVERY DAY*!!

**DOES GOD'S WORD SAY THAT *ADDING** OR **TAKING WORDS** AWAY FROM GOD'S WORD IS AN UNPARDONABLE SIN**??

Deuteronomy 4:2: The Lord said, "Do not **ADD** to what I command you and do not **SUBTRACT** from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you!!"

Deuteronomy 12:32: The Lord said, "See that you do all I command you, do not **ADD** to it or **TAKE AWAY** from it!!"

Proverbs 30:5,6: Every Word of God is **FLAWLESS**, He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him! Do not **ADD* to His Words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a **LIAR**!!

Deuteronomy 18:17-19: The Lord said to Moses, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among your fellow Israelites, and I will put My words in His mouth. He will tell them **EVERYTHING** I command Him. I Myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to My words that the Prophet speaks in My name!!"

John 14:21-24: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and keeps them is the one who loves Me... Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching, My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them.. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching. These words you hear are not My own; they belong to the Father who sent Me!" {See Deut 18:17-19 above}

I Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.

Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"

I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's love is truly made complete in him!

Matthew 4:4: Jesus says, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on **EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!"

Luke 8:15: Jesus says, "But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the **WORD**, retain it, and by perseverance produce a crop."

John 17:17: Jesus prays to His Father, "Sanctify them by the Truth, **YOUR WORD IS TRUTH**!"

1/29/2018 4:32:31 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


**THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES THAT THE BIBLE IS A DEAD LETTER WHICH NEEDS TO INTERPRETED FOR YOU** {CONTINUED}

Acts 20:32: Paul says, "Now I commit you to God and to the **WORD OF HIS GRACE**, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified!"

Romans 10:17: Consequently, **FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE**, and the message is heard **THROUGH THE WORD OF CHRIST**!

James 1:18; He chose to give us **BIRTH THROUGH THE WORD** of Truth!!

I Corinthians 15:2: By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the **WORD** preached to you. Otherwise you have believed in vain!

2 Corinthians 4:2: We do not use deception, nor do we distort the **WORD OF GOD**!

Ephesians 1:`13: You also were included in Christ **WHEN** you heard the **WORD** of Truth, the gospel of your salvation.

Ephesians 2:17: Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the **WORD OF GOD**!

Colossians 1:25: I have become its servant by the commission God gave to me to present to you the **WORD OF GOD IN ALL ITS FULLNESS**!

Colossians 3:16: Let the **WORD OF CHRIST** dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom!

I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**!

2 Timothy 2:15: Do your best to present yourselves to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who **CORRECTLY HANDLES THE WORD ** of truth!

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC popes} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Ephesians 1:20-23 God raised Christ from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, **FAR ABOVE** all rule and authority and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the ***PRESENT AGE*** but also in the one to come. And God {The Father} placed ALL things under His {Jesus} feet and appointed Him to be **HEAD** OVER **EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH** {Not some RC Pope}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way!!!

I Timothy 3:2-5: Now the **OVERSEER** is to be above reproach, faithful to his **WIFE** ... He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him. If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, **HOW CAN HE TAKE CARE OF GOD'S CHURCH**!!

I Timothy 4:1-3: The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by **DEMONS**! Such teachings come through hypocritical **LIARS**, whose consciences has been seared as with a hot iron. **THEY FORBID PEOPLE TO MARRY**!!

In AD 1159 the Roman Catholic Church decreed that all **OVERSEERS** such as popes, cardinals, bishops, priests and nuns are **FOBIDDEN TO MARRY**!!

**THE SATANIC ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DECLARES MARY AS REDEEMER**

"The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: That we obtain everything through Mary." (Pope Pius IX)

"To such extent did Mary suffer and almost die with her suffering and dying Son; to such extent did she surrender her maternal rights over her Son for man's salvation... that we may rightly say she redeemed the human race together with Christ." (Benedict XV}

"In fact, by being assumed into heaven she has not laid aside the office of salvation but by the manifold intercession she continues to obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation." (John Paul II, Dives in Misericordia, 1980, quoting Lumen Gentium)

1/29/2018 6:53:58 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

ludlowlowell
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (37,636)
Panama City, FL
65, joined Feb. 2008


Prophetic, do you really think we cannot talk to Jesus in prayer? If not, how can we develop a personal relationship with Him?

Anybody else have an answer for that one?

1/29/2018 7:13:45 PMProtestants, do you think we can pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit? 

prophetic774
Over 10,000 Posts!!! (14,462)
Winter Haven, FL
67, joined Feb. 2011


The Roman Catholic Church in the Council of Trent, held in the year 1545, declared that **TRADITION** is of equal authority with **GOD'S WORD**.

By **TRADITION** is meant human teachings. The Pharisees believed the same way, and Jesus bitterly condemned them, for by teaching human tradition, they nullified the commandments of God. (Read Mark 7:7-13; Colossians 2:8; Revelation 22:18).

**RIDICULOUS LUDLOW QUOTES:

Prophetic says, "In general Christians insist that any major doctrine be backed up by scripture."

WRONG!!!! WRONG!!!! REAL WRONG!!! VERY, VERY WRONG!!! A VERY, VERY HERETICAL NOTION!!!

"The idea that every doctrine must be found in scripture... This false notion is contradicted by 2 Thessalonians 2:15, where Paul instructs the early Christians that they must adhere to all doctrines, whether written down in epistles or passed on in the Church by word of mouth."????

"Why do Catholics believe in the immaculate conception of Mary, or the sinlessness of Mary, or the perpetual virginity of Mary, or the assumption of Mary body and soul into Heaven? True, none of these doctrines are explicitly stated in scripture---in the epistles---but they were passed down in the Church by word of mouth, so belief in them is **REQUIRED FOR SALVATION**"????.


**BUT WHAT DOES 2 THESSALONIANS 2:15 REALLY SAY**??

2 Thessalonians 2:15: Paul said, "Stand firm and hold fast to the teachings passed on to you, whether by **WORD OF MOUTH** or by **LETTER**."

Now Paul only wrote 2 inspired letters to the Thessalonians but he also wrote 12 other inspired letters with many different doctrines to other churches!! Now the Roman Catholic Church teaches that what Paul taught by **WORD OF MOUTH** to the Thessalonians had many other doctrines not found in other Scriptures and only the Roman Catholic Church knows what these unknown doctrines are??? For example: That Mary was the only human person in Bible history that was **SINLESS** that they declared as the **WORDS OF GOD** on December 8th, 1854 {???} which is contradicted by many Scriptures in the inspired **WORDS OF GOD**!!!

Pope Pius IX declared the Immaculate Conception of Mary an article of faith on this day, December 8, 1854. According to his pronouncement in Ineffabilis Deus, Mary was given grace to be sinless??? Making Mary the only human person in Bible history to be sinless???

Mark 7:7-13: The Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the **TRADITION** of the elders?".. Jesus replied, "They worship Me in vain; their teachings are merely human values. You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human **TRADITIONS!" You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own **TRADITIONS**!... Thus you nullify the Word of God by your **TRADITION** that you have handed down. And you do many things like that!!"

Colossians 2:8: See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on **HUMAN TRADITION** and elemental spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ!!


**DOES GOD'S WORD SAY THAT *ADDING** OR **TAKING WORDS** AWAY FROM GOD'S WORD IS AN UNPARDONABLE SIN**??

Deuteronomy 4:2: The Lord said, "Do not **ADD** to what I command you and do not **SUBTRACT** from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you!!"

Deuteronomy 12:32: The Lord said, "See that you do all I command you, do not **ADD** to it or **TAKE AWAY** from it!!"

Proverbs 30:5,6: Every Word of God is **FLAWLESS**, He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him! Do not **ADD* to His Words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a **LIAR**!!

I Thessalonians 2:13: We thank God continually because, when you received the **WORD OF GOD**, which you heard from us, you received it not as the word of men {**RC POPE'S TRADITIONS**}, but as it actually is, the **WORD OF GOD**!

2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**,which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}

Revelation 22:16,18,19: "I, Jesus. have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the Churches.... I warn everyone who hears the **WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK**: If anyone **ADDS** {Like the RC popes} anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book {Including **ETERNAL HELL**} And if anyone **TAKES WORDS AWAY** {Like the RC popes} from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The New Jerusalem}, which are described in this book."

THE GREAT COMMISSION: Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, “All authority in heaven and on ***EARTH*** has been given to Me {Not some RC Pope}. Therefore go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*...teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING** I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very *END OF THE AGE*!”

Deuteronomy 18:17-19: The Lord said to Moses, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among your fellow Israelites, and I will put My words in His mouth. He will tell them **EVERYTHING** I command Him. I Myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to My words that the Prophet speaks in My name!!"

John 14:21-24: Jesus says, "Whoever has My commands and keeps them is the one who loves Me... Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching, My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them.. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching. These words you hear are not My own; they belong to the Father who sent Me!" {See Deut 18:17-19 above}

I Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.

Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"

I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's love is truly made complete in him!

Matthew 4:4: Jesus says, "Man does not live on bread alone, but on **EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD**!"

Luke 8:15: Jesus says, "But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the **WORD**, retain it, and by perseverance produce a crop."

John 17:17: Jesus prays to His Father, "Sanctify them by the Truth, **YOUR WORD IS TRUTH**!" {**NOT TRADITIONS**!!}